Armi-Sport Zouave question

[gunhawk]

I'm thinking about buying an Armi-Sport Zouave for my first percussion rifle. I like the Zouave for the period and the look of it. I am aware that the original Zouaves were probably not issued during the CW, but I am not a reenactor so I have no authenticity issues. So my only questions are about accuracy and reliabilty. I have been shooting rifles and pistols since i was in the Air Force in '65 and I know what i'm capable of, but i'm used to adjustable sights and modern firearms with fixed sights that group on my point of aim or at 6 O'Clock. I've heard that CW replica muskets and rifles shoot high at 100 yards, which is the range that I normally shoot at. Is this true of the Armi-Sport Zouave? Can I expect to be hitting the target at my point of aim once i have the correct ball and powder combination or am i going to have to build up the front sight? My second question is how reliable will this firearm be with regular maintenance. Will it fire every time, or can I expect misfires?

Has anyone here had any experience with the Armi-Sport Zouave "match rifle" that is advertised at their site?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Misplaced Rebel]

Gunhawk-

Welcome to the forum! I'm glad we have another amongst our ranks.
Before I start, I want to thank you for your service to our country. This means a lot to all of us on this forum.

Now, down to business:

1: On the question of authenticity, I'm glad you have educated yourself on the Zouave as you considered it. You are very correct that this rifle (also known as the 1863 Remington Contract Rifle, I believe) was not issued to ACW troops- at least, that we can discern.
2: On the question of accuracy/trajectory, you are absolutely correct. These rifle-muskets (or in this case, a rifle) were "battle-zeroed" for 200 yards. The first leaf, though it probably says one hundred, is actually 'for any target between the ranges of 0 and 200 yards.' It's funky, I know, but by increasing the height of the front sight, you can easily sight the gun in for 100 yards. I shoot an Euroarms 1863 Richmond Rifle-Musket that I use in competition, and I had to install a new front sight- not a difficult proposition since most are simply soldered on to the barrel and have a small key on the bottom. You can also, as you said, build up the blade on the sight itself. However, this sight might be off laterally to some degree, so you might need to adjust there as well.

I have shot a Zouave before- not necessarily an Armi Sport (there are other makers, namely Zoli [which I believe is OOB, but they can be found, and are highly regarded in Civil War shooting circles] and Euroarms [whose American division was recently bought out by Pedersoli, but they too can still be found for reasonable prices]), but I can tell you that even after years of hard use, these rifles will keep shooting, given you give that 'regular maintenance' that is standard to BP weapons. They can, with some sighting in and load development, be made to shoot VERY accurately.
When developing a load, don't sight in the gun with the load, find the most accurate load possible and then change the weapon to fit that load. Try both 2F and 3F BP and conicals (real minie balls- not modern conicals) as well as PRB.
Once you have done your part, this gun will provide a long, reliable service life.

Cheers,

-Chris

 

[ken.clements]

I'm thinking about buying an Armi-Sport Zouave for my first percussion rifle. I like the Zouave for the period and the look of it. I am aware that the original Zouaves were probably not issued during the CW, but I am not a reenactor so I have no authenticity issues. So my only questions are about accuracy and reliabilty. I have been shooting rifles and pistols since i was in the Air Force in '65 and I know what i'm capable of, but i'm used to adjustable sights and modern firearms with fixed sights that group on my point of aim or at 6 O'Clock. I've heard that CW replica muskets and rifles shoot high at 100 yards, which is the range that I normally shoot at. Is this true of the Armi-Sport Zouave? Can I expect to be hitting the target at my point of aim once i have the correct ball and powder combination or am i going to have to build up the front sight? My second question is how reliable will this firearm be with regular maintenance. Will it fire every time, or can I expect misfires?

Has anyone here had any experience with the Armi-Sport Zouave "match rifle" that is advertised at their site?

Thanks in advance.

Hi Gunhawk,

Here’s an area where I took months to get this info to able to tell you in 10 Minute’s, so please read slowly to get your times worth. :grin:
If you are looking for accuracy, shooting compitions and such, then I would suggest an Original Parker Hale Navy Enfield in .577. :bow: If you decide to shoot in matches you will be competing against these. Enfields were issued during the CW (don’t know about the ”žNavy“ though), are very accurate, very stabile almost undestructable rifles that are ”žuser friendly“ in both shooting, cleaning, and general care. These are the ”žMercedes“ on the Range. :bow:
The Parker Hale Machinery and accruments were sold in the 90”˜s, mostly to Euro Arm’s in Italy. Euro Arms was putting the Original Barrels in Euro Arms stocks and selling them untill running out (the last were sold roughly 2 years ago ). Euro Arms has also bought the rights to stamp Barrels ”žParker Hale“...please be carefull what you buy nowadays. :cursing:
I have owned a Armi Sport Rifle (.58 Springfield) tried shooting it in matches, and was disapointed. The barrel I had was oversize, somewhere in the .582 Range, which makes it very difficult to find an accurate Load. This pretty much put me off future investments in Armi Sport. :shake:
I do have an Euro Arms Zouave that I shoot in compitions. I believe I got lucky with this Rifle because I bought the Artillery Muskatoon from them and...well....does water pipe say anything? Needless to say I sold it as an Orniment.
The Euro Arms Zouave is rugged, heavy, very accurate (after months off playing around with it). It will fire every time if you load it correctly (very large hint here) :v . If you need help or Info about loading it, caring for it or buying accruments, PM me aforehand and I’ll walk you through what I do and possibly save you some money and LOT’S of time. :wink:
There could be a problem with compition shooting in CW matches. I believe there ”žaccepted“ Replica’s and ”žno way“ Replica’s...Maybe someone could help here that knows where the bumps in the road are? :idunno:

 

[gunhawk]

Misplaced Rebel

Thanks for the advice.

Changing the front sight on whatever muzzle loader that I eventually buy is something that I considered right away after lining up the sights on the Enfield and Springfield 1861. The extremely narrow front sight on both of them would certainly be hard to use. I haven't had a chance to look at the sights on the Zouave, but I assume that they would be the same as the other two. If I eventually decided to compete would a modified front sight disqualify me in the types of match that you shoot in?

 

[gunhawk]

Ken

Thanks for your advice. I'll take you up on your offer to share further info as soon as I decide which way i'm going to go.

The very first muzzle loader that I considered was the standard Enfield because of it's reputed accuracy. I had a chance to shoulder one that was manufactured by Armi-Sport at gun store near me. The problem was that I had to press my cheekbone so firmly against the stock just to get the sights lined up that i'm concerned that after a couple of shots it will be uncomfortable and that will destroy my accuracy. I'm sure that i'm not the only one that finds it tough to aim one, so how do you handle that? Did you modify the stock at all? Is the Navy version different than the standard version? And i'll ask you the same question that I asked Misplaced Rebel; If I modify or change the front sight will that disqualify me in the type(s) of matches that you shoot in?

 

[ken.clements]

Ken

Thanks for your advice. I'll take you up on your offer to share further info as soon as I decide which way i'm going to go.

The very first muzzle loader that I considered was the standard Enfield because of it's reputed accuracy. I had a chance to shoulder one that was manufactured by Armi-Sport at gun store near me. The problem was that I had to press my cheekbone so firmly against the stock just to get the sights lined up that i'm concerned that after a couple of shots it will be uncomfortable and that will destroy my accuracy. I'm sure that i'm not the only one that finds it tough to aim one, so how do you handle that? Did you modify the stock at all? Is the Navy version different than the standard version? And i'll ask you the same question that I asked Misplaced Rebel; If I modify or change the front sight will that disqualify me in the type(s) of matches that you shoot in?

I've never changed my Navy in any way, but like I said before, I saved a little while longer and bought me an original from PH.
There is no standard version of a Enfield... there's a two band (Navy), three band (Infantry), and a muskatoon (Artillery)...I've heard there is a Seargants Rifle, but I've haven't really looked or asked. I have the 2 Band Navy. the Advantage with the PH is the Iron sights are cut smaller and tighter then the the ones I have on my Zouave. Yes my cheek lays more on the stock with the Navy than the Zouave, but with the finer sight picture...I have no problem with it.
You could have had the 3 Band in the store....from quality you can buy the Zouave, I find there is no difference.
From changing sights and such, you'll have to ask someone who shoots in CW matches in the States, I'm in Germany. No one would really say anything over here, unless it is either greatly changed or a very sore loser. Although the compitions here are tough with many good shooters, we like to think the fun is in the smoke and noise and there is very rarely any tricks. We like to sit around after the match and drink a beer, exchange expieriences, and tell huge lies :haha: Those tricky typs of people usually get thrown out very quickly.
After all, we (at least I do) shoot ML for fun, .577 make big holes in the Target, It stinks, I get dirty, my Girlfriend gets very angry when I clean my Rifle in the kitchen (and she's so cute when she's angry :wink: )and because its a ML, I'm never at fault...its was raining, powder was wet, too much wind, wrong grease, Minie was bent, and so on :thumbsup:

Post#1072980 take a look

 

[gunhawk]

Ken

I did a little research and found the North-South Skirmish Association which is oriented to matches rather than reenactments. They allow a wider front sight and also allow drilling a hole in a rear leaf sight, which means relief for my aging eyes via a peep sight and a wider square front sight. Those mods don't sound very difficult or expensive if done by a gunsmith. I think that those are reasonable mods too, as a sniper might have done the same thing to his rifle.

 

[ken.clements]

question is answered :grin:
know all you need is the Rifle and all the stuff for shooting it. :thumbsup:

 

[59sharps]

if you are thinking N-SSA go to their sight all approved arms are listed.

 

[Klaus]

Hi Ken and all other who may concern ,

if you are interrested about the Enfield 1856
pls visit Orvynd`s side www.svartkrutt.net he tells a huge info around the 1856 Model

Klaus :wink:

 

[ken.clements]

Gar nicht schlecht...muss es lesen wenn ich zeit habe....vorweihnachts stress zu zeit :shake:
es gibt noch einer aus England der viel info ins net gestellt hat.
wo schiesst du?

 

[Klaus]

Hi Ken,i live in Odenthal,it`s a little village near Cologne.
I do my hobby in Euskirchen 70 km south of Cologne
we can shoot 100m , 50m, and 25m.
Unfortutaly due to DSB/RSB Rules only. It`s a pitty because i would like to enyoy the NSSA Competion much more.....

Klaus

 

[ken.clements]

Hi Klaus, I'm in Niedersachsen, Celle to be exact. I shoot DSB 50 Meter and below. we'll have to get together sometime and make some smoke :haha:

 

[59sharps]

If I can do the sight mod. any one can! for the rear leaf S & S sells a blank L leaf you can use. buy 2 of them, 1 to use until you find exact zero for 50 and 100 and the other for finished sight.
the front sight mod grind the sight flush w/ the top of the sight block. then notch the block and silver solder a tail pcs of bar stock into the notch steel or brass are both allowed by N-SSA rules I believe.

 

[Klaus]

Hi Ken,

very good idea :grin:

Maybe we could arrange a meeting on a "Vorderladerschiessen" at Verden or something else.
Are you more a competition shooter or far more for Reenactment,Hunting and Black Powder Smoke?

wish you a Merry Christmas

Klaus

 

[ken.clements]

Hi Ken,

very good idea :grin:

Maybe we could arrange a meeting on a "Vorderladerschiessen" at Verden or something else.
Are you more a competition shooter or far more for Reenactment,Hunting and Black Powder Smoke?

wish you a Merry Christmas

Klaus

hey Klaus I'm sending you a PM gruess