Article in "The American Rifleman" on BP and Subs

[joliver]

If you haven't read it, get a copy of the October issue of "The American Rifleman." There's an interesting article titled "Beyond A Flash In The Pan." Gives lots of info on velocity and pressure levels for 100 and 150 gr charges of BP and various subs.

joliver

 

[dry ball john]

:shocked2: It might be an interesting article for some but I and my friends do not use much more than 80gr of 3f for anything we shoot. I once used 90gr in my GPR and had a sore shoulder for a couple days( we were sighting in at 100 yds) Cheers DBJ

 

[mykeal]

In fact it's a very interesting article. Thanks for posting, joliver.

 

[Blizzard of '93]

ditto John. max for me in my .50 is 90 grs. beyond that is just blowing burning power out the muzzle. little if any gain at all.

 

[shmrck1]

mykeal,
I don't get 'American Rifleman',but
'American Hunter' from the NRA and the article
does not appear in it. Although I read anything
about guns,powder etc. I seriously doubt that
article was written with traditional
muzzleloaders in mind.IMHO They very seldom
are.....As a very long time member of the NRA,
although they are not anti traditional, they
certainly do not promote it.
When is the last time you saw an add for a
traditional muzzleloader in an NRA publication.
Not an article,but an add :hmm:
I'm not saying it's good or bad,but the NRA is
first and formost a big time money collector,and
I just wish they might spend just a little bit
on the traditional side of firearms.
We all know they are one of,if not the largest
lobbyist group in Washington.Woops,Forgot about
drugs and gas. OK,so the NRA is third, that is still making a lot of old senators,dying rich.
The Senate is the most powerfull,get richer
scam in the country.(keeping in mind they are
most likely worth millions before being
elected):hmm:
I personally like 'House Rep' people....Seems
like they earn some of the money they get :hmm:
snake-eyes :wink:

 

[redwing]

This is 100% Inl*** Ifo. This would have no real value to those of us who shoot Traditional Black Powder fire arms.

All testing was done in an Inl*** rifle with Sabots and 240 Gr. modern pistol slugs. The loads tested were 100 Grs. and 150 Grs. loading. There is no Info. here that could be related to a Flint Lock or a Cap lock or side lock M/L.

If you shoot Traditional don't waste your time on this manure. If you are an NRA member write them and ask for a test like this in Flinters or cappers. :cursing:

 

[ldykeman]

I respectfully beg to differ. The NRA is first and foremost a champion of gun rights in this country. If not for the NRA (for all its good and bad points), I firmly believe we would be reduced to single shot long guns only (maybe original traditional muzzleloaders only). Look what has happened in England, Australia, and Canada. These countries don't have a Constitutional Ammendment that guarantees the right to keep and bear arms, or an organization like the NRA to keep it from being misinterpreted.
As for the article mentioned, I did read it. Yes, the testing was done with heavy charges in modern guns, but it is the same powder most of us use. I believe there is useful information in the findings, giving correlations between the different propellents. But, then again, I find all types of firearms interesting to read about. The one thing I did find very misleading was the picture at the head of the article showed a flintlock in the process of firing, and the article had nothing to do with flintlocks.

Larry

 

[roundball]

"...the testing was done with heavy charges in modern guns, but it is the same powder most of us use..."

Larry, are you saying they used real BP in the i n l i n e s...or are you saying that 'most of us use bp subs'?

 

[ldykeman]

The propellents they used in the article included Goex FFg, Goex Express FFg, Swiss FFg, Scheutzen FFg, American Pioneer FFg, American Pioneer sticks, Jim Shockey's Gold FFg, Jim Shockey's Gold sticks, Pryodex RS, Pyrodex Select, Pyrodex pellets, Black Mag3, Goex Pinnacle FFg, and Goex Pinnacle EZLoads.
What I was getting at is that some of the powders tested in the article are the same ones we use in traditional muzzleloaders. Again, all testing in the article was done using modern rifles, but I felt the findings may still be of some interest.
Larry

 

[roundball]

I wouldn't mind seeing the article then...I get the 'Hunter' magazine though, not the "Rifleman"

 

[Mad Professor]

I wouldn't mind seeing the article then...I get the 'Hunter' magazine though, not the "Rifleman"

yep me too, american hunter

 

[ldykeman]

Since my wife and I are both life members, I get American Rifleman and she gets American Hunter. There is quite a bit of redundancy between the two, but lots of good reading in each one. Since I am a gun nut first and hunter second, I enjoy the Rifleman more. She is purely a hunter, with a firearm being merely a tool with which to hunt.
Larry

 

[longcruise]

The article was loaded with interesting info. Bryce Towsleys rifleman articles on ml guns and shooting are usually completely bereft of info of interest to us trad shooters. This one showed a straight up comparison of the powders listed above and even though the tests were shot in an in line (27" barrel) they are still a useful comparison of these powders.

I for one always wondered how Swiss ffg would compare to T7. Looking at the chart, T7 barely outperforms swiss. A good thing to know when you plan to rub an in liners nose in the facts regarding real bp and the in liners apparent favorite, T7. :haha:

I also found it interesting that a few of the subs performed so poorly compared to real bp! :shocked2:

IMO, the whole article and tests confirmed that real BP is superiour to many of the subs and in fact if it was not "superior", the differences are not that important.

The article also acknowledges the superiour ignition qualities of real bp which is something the inliners overlook and find themselves compensating for with all sorts of souped up ignition systems. Any in liner with any common sense who reads this article and wants "high" performance will go get themselves some Swiss ffg. It obviously delivers near max performance with easy ignition. Who wouldn't want that? Course there are the ones who think you should only wipe the bore once a year! :haha:

The Black Mag was a surprise to me! :shocked2:

 

[Landngroove]

An interesting read.

 

[roundball]

:hmm: :hmm: wonder if any members who have a copy also own a document scanner...one that needs a 2 or 3 page article test :hmm: :hmm:

 

[oldarmy]

I respectfully beg to differ. The NRA is first and foremost a champion of gun rights in this country. If not for the NRA (for all its good and bad points), I firmly believe we would be reduced to single shot long guns only (maybe original traditional muzzleloaders only). Look what has happened in England, Australia, and Canada. These countries don't have a Constitutional Ammendment that guarantees the right to keep and bear arms, or an organization like the NRA to keep it from being misinterpreted.
I agree.. I have had big time differences with the
NRA, But Gunowners need to
STICK TOGETHER...WHAT EVER KIND OF WEAPON YOU SHOOT IS AT RISK..
Even our beloved flinters.If you can't get BP your flinter is nothing but a wall hanger. Remember the suggested OSHA REGS????
That's why I just renewed my membership.

 

[sparsons]

Just to jump in here. the article used a 245gr. Hornady sst in sabot from .50cal. Knight KRB with a 27inch barrel. Copied that off the header of the comparsion sheet. All the test were done with this rifle. The starting point was 100 grains of various powders and combos. :bow:

 

[bigbore442001]

I'll agree on the need to stick together. I firmly believe the antis are using a divide and conquer approach.

I have read tests done on different brands of black powder and substitutes. Some of the substitues are horrible. They give you the impression that it is better than sliced bread but look at the numbers. The numbers don't lie.

I also want to expand this thread. I seem to recall that many years ago the gun and hunting author Ross Seyfried wrote about black powder types. I got the impression that there were many different types and formulations of black powder in the 19th century. Some were made with different granulations and some like one type used sumac wood for the charcoal. I seem to recall he tested some antique powder and it performed exceptionally well.

I wonder if there is a market for some specialize d black powder?

 

[Stumpkiller]

If not for the NRA (for all its good and bad points), I firmly believe we would be reduced to single shot long guns only . . .

Well, lookin around here that wouldn't crimp my style much. Even my .223 REM is a single shot. :wink: I don't often see woodchucks traveling in pairs or flocks. :rotf: I would be sore hurt to give up my Ithaca/SKB 20 Ga Side-by-side, though.

But then I don't pledge to any group to save my right to free speech, right not to be cruely or unusually punished, right to assembly, right to a trial by jury, right to vote or right to drink alcohol so I am at least consistant.

 

[walruskid1]

roundball, pt me with your email. i have it scanned into a file. wk1