I'm late to the party here but thank you for posting this info Edit: R.I.P. ! Thank you to the rest of yall for your contribution. Informitive and very interesting info.
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Interesting Cap & Ball Paper Cartridge Information
- Thread starter Zonie
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There were a lot of scandals back during and after the civil war where manufacturers reduced powder charges and bullet weight to increase profits. Some of the old surviving newspaper articles and court case documents were interesting. The government specifications had listed the bullet weights and powder charges for the paper cartridges contracts and unscrupulous manufacturers tried to cheat and got caught.
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Interesting!
. . . official Confederate States publication specifies a 250 gr. conical bullet over 30 grs. of powder for the Colt M1860 revolver . . .
That's a big bullet
That's a big bullet
rodwha
58 Cal.
Way back when there was the Percussion Pistol Yahoo group which had a member who had tested an original Hazardās pack of .44 cal cartridges. Disassembly showed 4F powder and testing showed it to be comparable to Swiss powder. His research showed Hazardās introduced their new Pistol Powder. 36 grns pushing a 211 grn conical.
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So unless you were lucky and always issued the same brand of ammo it would have been very difficult to have any degree of real accuracy with these pistols. Going from 211g bullet to a 260g bullet depending on what was in the supply wagon would have been a real pain in the butt for any serious pistol shooter.
rodwha
58 Cal.
Iād certainly love to see information on the paper cartridges as to the powder charges they used. Hazardās used their Pistol Powder which was 4F and potent like Swiss. 36 grns of it pushing a 211 grn bullet must have been somewhat impressive even with that stupid pointy nose. Using 4F would make some of those very anemic looking powder charges make more sense.
the information is in the OP first post. I also found that article and posted it awhile ago in one of the threads.
here it is again. looks like powder charges and bullet weights were all over the place. fine for point blank shooting but annoying as heck if you were trying to stay alive at 25yrds and had no clue what was in the latest box of ammo you just loaded up with..
COLT ARMY .44
Hazard Powder Co. - 211 gr. conical / 36 grs. powder
Bartholow's - 260 gr. conical / 19 grs. powder
Johnston & Dow - 242 gr. conical / 35 grs. powder
Unknown - 257 gr. conical / 17 grs. powder
Unknown - 207 gr. conical / 22 grs. powder
Hotchkiss - 207 gr. conical / 22 grs. powder
COLT NAVY .36
Hazard Powder Co. - 141 gr. conical / 21 grs. powder
Bartholow's - 139 gr. conical / 14 grs. powder
Johnston & Dow - 150 gr. conical / 17 grs. powder
Unknown - 155 gr. conical / 12 grs. powder
Unknown - 149 gr. conical / 13 grs. powder
here it is again. looks like powder charges and bullet weights were all over the place. fine for point blank shooting but annoying as heck if you were trying to stay alive at 25yrds and had no clue what was in the latest box of ammo you just loaded up with..
COLT ARMY .44
Hazard Powder Co. - 211 gr. conical / 36 grs. powder
Bartholow's - 260 gr. conical / 19 grs. powder
Johnston & Dow - 242 gr. conical / 35 grs. powder
Unknown - 257 gr. conical / 17 grs. powder
Unknown - 207 gr. conical / 22 grs. powder
Hotchkiss - 207 gr. conical / 22 grs. powder
COLT NAVY .36
Hazard Powder Co. - 141 gr. conical / 21 grs. powder
Bartholow's - 139 gr. conical / 14 grs. powder
Johnston & Dow - 150 gr. conical / 17 grs. powder
Unknown - 155 gr. conical / 12 grs. powder
Unknown - 149 gr. conical / 13 grs. powder
Sorry Dude
32 Cal
For the Colt Navy no way 21grs of powder fit under a 141gr conical, I couldn't get 17grs to fit under 140gr conical, so I'm running 15grs. I ordered 126gr and am waiting for them to see what fits under them.
rodwha
58 Cal.
Hazardās used their new Pistol Powder in their paper cartridges. They were found to contain 4F powder. And itās potent like Swiss so itās likely dense and being finer could add a few grains. My 30 grn measure weighs ~32.5 grns of 3F Olde Eynsford as is also dense like Swiss weighing more than their standard Goex powder.
Sorry Dude
32 Cal
I double checked my volume weights against a grain scale and my 20gr spout is spot on and the 15gr spout throws a little under the actual weight with Swiss 3F. I wonder what the original cylinder chamber dimensions are and if it makes a difference.
Buffalos Arms happens to make combustible paper cartridges for .44 cap and ball pistols. It might be of interest to those who do not want to roll their own
https://www.buffaloarms.com/6-44-calcombustible-cartridges-cpc44.html
https://www.buffaloarms.com/6-44-calcombustible-cartridges-cpc44.html
Troopers were not serious pistol shooters. Actually tended to be mounted infantry post Civil War.
Were mounted troopers even issued pistols? And even Pistol Calvary would just be in close and point, probably shot the horses if they could not get a close shot on a rider. None of it was precision in a melee.
Even in the civil war they were dismounted mounted infantry at times. The first engagement @ Gettysburg two brigades of dismounted union calvary under General Beuford stopped and held up a much larger Confederate force long enough for reinforcements to come up. They did this by kneeling and going prone etc and laying down a strong fire base with their breech loading carbines. Don't know if handguns came into play but doubt it.
bpalbee
36 Cl.
Those would look good in a cased set!
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