Asian "Enfield"

[calvarybooks]

Rotate Pic #6...

 

[firearms]

TP from Gunboard led me here.
In my opinion it is Japanese for sure. The s/n pattern matched the Japanese style. The character infront and behind the numbers simply means number(verb) xxx
The imprints on the stock put it to 1872, Kisarazu County. That is part of Chiba-Ken(Chiba County) since 1873. The Kisarazu was formed in 1871 and merged with another Country to become Chiba County in 1873 which is next to Tokyo.
The floral marking is consistent with Japanese style. Large Japanese families/Clans had their own graphical logo just like the European counter parts. Everyone knows about the 16-pedals Japanese Royal Mum but that is just one of the many in Japan. Good examples are the old Japanese Arsenal markings.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Overall, it seems to be in good shape. What would the barrel inlay be made of? Silver? Did the Japanese order them as smoothbores for any particular reason? Or would they have been purchased as surplus from the British in India? There seems to be little solid information available on the Asian firearms of this period. Thanks. Dan

 

[arquebus]

Don't let the Chinese characters fool you! I bought an original Japanese matchlock musket a few years ago, the underside of the barrel was covered in stamped characters, in addition to some ink-written ones along the barrel channel.
Assuming they were Japanese I showed them to a Japanese speaking friend at work who told me they were not Japanese, but Chinese.
I also knew people who spoke Chinese, & they were able to tell me what some of characters said, but weren't able to recognize others. My next step was to send a copy of the writing to the Chinese department of the University of Washington Department of Asian Languages.
I just told them that the writing was from an old Chinese rifle. In his reply, a Professor of Classical Chinese gave a fairly comprehensive translation of the characters, though there were still some that he was unfamiliar with (probably firearm-specific terms). Interestingly though, he asked if there was any chance of the musket being of Japanese make saying:

While the inscriptions are all, to be sure, written in Chinese, it would not be unusual to have Chinese inscriptions on a Japanese rifle of the nineteenth century, & there are certain (grammatical) features that suggest Japanese provenance.

Also, the dating system used on my musket is kind of vague. The characters say it was made in the fourth month of the yi-mao year which would date it as either 1765, 1795, 1855, or any other date, before or after, in 60-year increments. Knowing that the Japanese used matchlocks for many, many years it makes it hard to pin down, but I suspect mine may be either 1795 or 1855.
Anyway, my point here is don't let the apparent language used on the gun be the determining factor in deciding were it originated, or was used by. Good luck in your search.

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

TP from Gunboard led me here.
In my opinion it is Japanese for sure. The s/n pattern matched the Japanese style. The character infront and behind the numbers simply means number(verb) xxx
The imprints on the stock put it to 1872, Kisarazu County. That is part of Chiba-Ken(Chiba County) since 1873. The Kisarazu was formed in 1871 and merged with another Country to become Chiba County in 1873 which is next to Tokyo.
The floral marking is consistent with Japanese style. Large Japanese families/Clans had their own graphical logo just like the European counter parts. Everyone knows about the 16-pedals Japanese Royal Mum but that is just one of the many in Japan. Good examples are the old Japanese Arsenal markings.

Bin, thank you for posting your thoughts, the 1872 and 1873 dates put it right at the period that this carbine would have been in use in Japan, also the Enfield pattern would be correct for Japanese use. Your thinking about the silver inlays on the barrel sound spot on as well.

 

[firearms]

I have a comprehensive list and explanation of the Chinese dating system here (which a lot of other East Asian countries used/uses): http://www.chinesefirearms.com/year.htm
You can compare the characters of 1872 to the top 2 characters on the stock imprint. It is correct that this system cycles every 60 years. However, I can't see where it says 4th month.
Judging by the characters along can't tell us that whether it is Chinese, Korean, Japanese or Vietnamese because at that period, they all used the same Chinese character set. However, looking at the name (4 characters) below would definite point it to Japanese origin. The naming convention is definitely Japanese not any other.

 

[arquebus]

Firearms said:

However, I can't see where it says 4th month.

I was referring to my Japanese-made matchlock, not the OP's 'Enfield', sorry for the confusion.

 

[dyemaker]

I saw a photo of a (Japanese duplication) of a two band Enfield with markings at an auction site using {google images}. It had only one band. It was from the Boshin war of the late 1860's according to the auctioneer. Regardless of where it's from, if this too is a duplication then what does it represent?

 

[dyemaker]

Looks like a Musketoon.

 

[dyemaker]

This just interests me and I have no idea what i am talking about but I think that if you want specific info on the rifle the best bet would be looking for the family crest (kamon). I found lots on google images that were similar but did not look very far. also wondered what the gunstock wood is. I have seen matchlocks of oak. Don't mean to aggrevate anyone just trying to help.
http://pingmag.jp/images/article/cho-chin19.jpg
http://www.japanusencounters.net/mon/kamon/mokkou.gif

 

[calvarybooks]

About the Ka-mon...
the inside of the symbol is an orange tree
the ouside is a cross section of a cucumber

 

[dyemaker]

I found this but don't know how much merit it has. Again I have no clue what I am talking about.
If the quote is trustworthy then it seems to suggest that either the musket is not military or was made before 1868?

In the spirit of every little bit helps...


QUOTE

"Since the Meiji Restoration (1868) the chrysanthemum crest was inscribed on the receivers of all army rifles. Before this time the army belonged to various lords and even a Shogun did not control all troops. After the Restoration the Japanese Army came under the direct control of the Emperor and so its rifles had on them the Emperor's crest, the chrysanthemum. This marking was started to enforce the concept of one national army."

Hope this doe's not confuse matters.

I am curious if the (Japanese duplicate) has the mum marking but it doe's not show that angle.

Link

 

[dyemaker]

It took a long time and my eyes are tired but I think I found the kamon. It appears to be the Gokani Tachibana.

Link

Renegade Samurai? Who knows... I'm tired of searching.

:surrender:

 

[dyemaker]

Well looking at this again I see five sections not four. Close but no cookie.

:redface: