Asking for help with a Rifle Shoppe Baker Rifle: groups at 50 yards have become dreadful.

[Eterry]

nobody is shooting dangerous game from a rest and everybody knows not to put a barrel on a fence post or rest messing up the harmonics. long match bullets are slightly wobbling at short range and stabilize at longer range. recoil happens after the bullet exits

Then you have a way to sight in a 416 to use on the smallest critter you'll hunt w/o a rest?
If Everyone knew everything, this forum wouldn't exist.
Everyone sights in their rifle, regardless of the type. My point is muzzle jump is a real thing unless you manage it.
And unless you know how to pause Physics, recoil will start with the cap exploding.

 

[Eterry]

Rudyard, I wish id had $$ BITD of cheap doubles after Kynoch closed. But wrong forum for that.

 

[Wirehair]

Eterry, could you describe how you "manage muzzle jump" on the bench, particularly larger bore, swamped barrel flintlocks to achieve consistent accuracy/repeatable results?

 

[French Colonial]

A couple of things...

Recoil starts at the moment that the bullet starts to move, that is a fact, The reason you can still have an accurate shooting gun with a heavy bullet is consistency, consistency, consistency. From consistency in the exact same load with the exact same bullet weight time after time... AND...someone who can hold the gun exactly the same, never flinch or anticipate recoil and have the same follow through every time. That person will bring out the best in any firearm.

Second, I don't know if this would work with a ML'er (never tried it, maybe I will) but on BPCRS guns we used to hold them or hang them by the wrist and tap on the barrel up and down with a rawhide mallet, in most spots the barrel will ring or vibrate, but there will be one or two spots that will give a dull thud. Mark that spot and set your barrel on the cross sticks at that spot every time to reduce the vibration when firing.

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

Eterry, could you describe how you "manage muzzle jump" on the bench, particularly larger bore, swamped barrel flintlocks to achieve consistent accuracy/repeatable results?

I.m not @Eterry and didn't sleep at a Holiday Inn last night, but set the rifle up over sandbags, where you want to be sitting as upright as you can to mimic your posture if shooting offhand. Sitting low and crouched over is gonna hurt! Also use a thick padded glove to hold the forend with your hand - not the forend - resting on the sandbags.

Cheek it well ... aim, squeeze, hold all the way through the shot and ride the recoil, and you'll be OK. All your attention on that front sight at and thru the shot! I also find that a supported (like up against a pole) sitting position shot also mimics the same point of impact as when shooting offhand, at least for me ... maybe due to my body size and proportions.

 

[Wirehair]

I.m not @Eterry and didn't sleep at a Holiday Inn last night, but set the rifle up over sandbags, where you want to be sitting as upright as you can to mimic your posture if shooting offhand. Sitting low and crouched over is gonna hurt! Also use a thick padded glove to hold the forend with your hand - not the forend - resting on the sandbags.

Cheek it well ... aim, squeeze, hold all the way through the shot and ride the recoil, and you'll be OK. All your attention on that front sight at and thru the shot! I also find that a supported (like up against a pole) sitting position shot also mimics the same point of impact as when shooting offhand, at least for me ... maybe due to my body size and proportions.

Thank you for the clarification. I have started using this technique, resting the bagged forend on my hand just behind the ramrod pipe. How tightly do you grip the stock (none, firm or death grip) and is the butt/ toe/elbow also bagged? I appreciate any advice as I'm about to seriously finalize my hunting accuracy load in the next day or so.

 

[Grenadier1758]

I will affirm what @French Colonial stated. You can find the place on the barrel that is a node of the inherent vibrations. I have seen this demonstrated by some of the best bench shooters in my club. With the barrel hanging freely like a chime, the barrel will ring out when tapped at most places along the length of the barrel. There will be one place that is a dull sound. That is where you want to rest to barrel.

 

[waksupi]

For heavy recoiling firearms, the English shooting bench makes life a lot easier. I made mine with posts set in the ground, with a solid platform on top.
Most people don't shoot all that great from a sit down bench, and these take some of the variables out of the equation.

 

[SPQR70AD]

Then you have a way to sight in a 416 to use on the smallest critter you'll hunt w/o a rest?
If Everyone knew everything, this forum wouldn't exist.
Everyone sights in their rifle, regardless of the type. My point is muzzle jump is a real thing unless you manage it.
And unless you know how to pause Physics, recoil will start with the cap exploI would sight a 416 standing cause that is how it is used on dangerous game being if you zero off a bench when you shoot it standing

I will affirm what @French Colonial stated. You can find the place on the barrel that is a node of the inherent vibrations. I have seen this demonstrated by some of the best bench shooters in my club. With the barrel hanging freely like a chime, the barrel will ring out when tapped at most places along the length of the barrel. There will be one place that is a dull sound. That is where you want to rest to barrel.

Then you have a way to sight in a 416 to use on the smallest critter you'll hunt w/o a rest?
If Everyone knew everything, this forum wouldn't exist.
Everyone sights in their rifle, regardless of the type. My point is muzzle jump is a real thing unless you manage it.
And unless you know how to pause Physics, recoil will start with the cap exploding.

I would sight a 416 standing cause a zero from a bench is usually different. if you shoot a 500 grain bullet with 150 grains of powder and recoil starts when the cap goes off then when the bullet starts down the bore how can anybody hit what they are aiming at? if you put sites on a bull and it recoils before the bullet leaves your site would be 2 ft from where you aimed

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

I will affirm what @French Colonial stated. You can find the place on the barrel that is a node of the inherent vibrations. I have seen this demonstrated by some of the best bench shooters in my club. With the barrel hanging freely like a chime, the barrel will ring out when tapped at most places along the length of the barrel. There will be one place that is a dull sound. That is where you want to rest to barrel.

Ummmm ... just be AWARE that that what he thinks is a Node ... may NOT be an accuracy Node once the barrel is in the stock (never mind that most propellant arms will have 2 or more accuracy nodes, whilst ringing a barrel identifies one 'something').

If you truly want to identify an accuracy Node whilst non-bench position shooting ... you must use the technique I've described. FWIW I've done this for well over a dozen BP muskets and > than 1/2 a dozen BP rifles, if not more, and I have all the group pictures, so.

And the biggest thing is ... 'bench' shooting is NOT that same as 'offhand' shooting or some other stance/hold/support that you might take in the woods. He is correct that strictly for bench shooting, one can change the point of impact and group size by experimenting with where the barrel/forend is supported, but that then only applies to bench shooting under the SAME strict conditions, placement and technique. But hey, if that's how you hunt ... have at it ...