Asphalt stain & bees wax finish

[rabbit03]

Sorry if I misunderstood you on this but I was inquiring about making the acid stronger with the introduction of oxygen that is carried by the water and not trying to make reference to how it is mixed.

SO DO NOT ADD THE WATER TO THE ACID. ADD THE ACID TO THE WATER.

rabbit03

 

[Stophel]

It makes absolutely no "chemical" difference which is added to which. The old high school saying "do as you oughta, add acid to watah" admonishes you to do this ONLY because when you pour one liquid into another, if there is any splashing, the liquid that you are pouring the other into is the one that is going to do the splashing. I regularly do it the "wrong" way... ::

I USED to sometimes use other stains in conjunction with AF, basically because I either did not know what I was doing, or there was a big screw up...I have a gun that I stained and neutralized and later decided to rework (the fore end was too thick mostly, and I reshaped the wrist some, etc.) Well, once the stain is neutralized, that's it. Staining the stock again is nigh on impossible. I washed that stock, stained, washed, stained, stained, stained. I like to have never gotten the stain to "take" on the wood again, and when I did, it was not quite as even as I would have liked. I made the stock overall quite dark by using an aniline dye-colored "Danish oil" stuff in order to even it out. I don't really recommend this course of action, but this was an extreme circumstance.

None of the guns that are on my photo album are stained with anything other than AF and neutralized with lye.

http://photobucket.com/albums/v326/Fatdutchman/Flintlocks

I have recently taken to the idea of no stain at all. I've been seeing more and more old guns lately that have never been stained with anything and have been finished with plain brown varnish or even a red "violin" varnish, which I am quite fond of. I'm working on a Lehigh gun right now that will sport this unstained, red oil-varnish finish.

 

[Stophel]

I have seen (photos only) of a gun with the asphaltum stain and wax (I believe it was a Wallace Gusler gun). In the photos, it looked OK. It was a very light color and hardly stained at all, really. I don't TOTALLY discount this as a viable staining method, only that I am unsure of the application method and durability of it.

 

Yeah, Blah. I made some up for the .40 I'm building. Actually was someone elses Idea. I had a bottle of BC Brown, which is a pain to use as browning. Some one else mentioned that it is mostly nitric acid, so I diluted with two parts water, added some barbed wire and a couple of 10 penny nails and let her cook, comes out a nice deep brown with a slight hint of red. Gotta test, and refine my process a bit more before it goes on the gun though. Ain't quite ready to put it on the gun yet ( can you say chicken) :crackup:. Bill

 

It makes absolutely no "chemical" difference which is added to which. The old high school saying "do as you oughta, add acid to watah" admonishes you to do this ONLY because when you pour one liquid into another, if there is any splashing, the liquid that you are pouring the other into is the one that is going to do the splashing. I regularly do it the "wrong" way... ::

:hmm: Interesting... I was taught that you always add acid to water because the acid reacts to the water, not the other way around. If you pour water into acid, since there's more acid than water there's more acid molecules reacting to ("fighting over") less water and it can explode. Where as when you pour acid into water there's more water than acid so you don't have the acid molecules "fighting" over the water.

 

[fatboy]

Static I agree with you 100% pour the acid into the water . I did get some Nitric acid already cut mixed strained about a pint from a friend i'll have to get some wood scraps to play on

 

[brettsut]

First post, but I thought I might be able to add something. I have used asphaltum. One of the trade names is Gilsonite. It is mined in Eastern Utah and was one of the main components in "some" of the Craftsman furniture. It imparts an aged look and is translucent, unlike a pigmented finish. It was the main binding ingredient in the paint for the old Model T's (at least that is what I remember). Anyway, it is dark, and was the reason that all of the old paint jobs were blackish green, black, blackish red etc. It is water resistant, and can still be purchased. I have a gallon of it in dried form in the shop.

Asphaltum can be thinned and used for either toning, or color filling pores.

I am new to ML and starting my first kit. I'll post on it elsewhere.

Best wishes to all.

Brett

 

[Zonie]

I think you guys/gals do this to me just to make me work.
Now, I had to go get my high school chemistry book out and blow off the spider-webs.

After reading part of the chapter on Acids, I have about reached the conclusion that the rule about adding the acid to the water is based on concentrated Sulfuric Acid.

Says the book: ... CAUTION: The acid may be added to water slowly, but water must never be added to concentrated sulfuric acid. This will cause a very violent reaction which will produce steam, and spatter the concentrated acid...

It goes on to say of Nitric Acid:
...The 100% nitric acid is too unstable to be pur on the market, but the concentrated nitric acid of commerce is fairly stable. It contains 68% of nitric acid dissolved in water...

Perhaps the fact that the nitric acid folks buy is already somewhat diluted makes it less volatile.

In any case, I think it is a good idea to stick with the old rule which says
ADD THE ACID TO THE WATER.

 

[Swampman]

In the long haul, they dyes are better and more stable than the aqua fortis. I've made aqua fortis but I won't waste my time any more.

 

[tg]

I have use the asphaltum(made from roofing tar dissolved in turp) mixed with linsed oil to darken/patina stocks, then sand down to get the look I want then finish with my lin seed/spar varn/turp finish and I like it, do try any new finish on a scrap piece first to see if it meets your expectations, I don't know about trying to get a better look out of the curl in maple with it, I have not used it on anything but plain maple and walnut.

 

In the long haul, they dyes are better and more stable than the aqua fortis.

What kind of dyes are you refering to and what makes them "better and more stable than aqua fortis"?

Cody

 

[pathfinderifh]

Not to brag or start anything, but I'm a 4th generation furniture restorer without any degrees but from the school of hard knocks, and ashphaltum has been around since someone visited La brae' tar pits and said "Hmmm,looks like good stain" :rotf:. We've been using it for as long as I can remember on oaks and ashes.Maples tend to turn greyish, Mahogany and walnuts go black. The "secret" to make it dry is to thin with naptha and add a drop or two Japan drier. I get my Ashphaltum from the tar in the road cracks,QUICKLY! :shocked2: The best looking stain on an iron mounted southern gun IMHO :thumbsup: Pathfinder

 

[pathfinderifh]

PS. to my last post. I'm not a fan of analine dyes if your going to be in the sun at all. Great colors,easy to use[especialy alcohol thinned] and unlimited shades and hues possable,but they do bleach out quickly,particularly the reds.
Pathfinder

 

[Swampman]

And the Aqua Fortis turns green.

Dangler's and LMF stains/dyes are superior.

 

[rich pierce]

Never seen AQF go green. Have seen chromic acid, chromium trioxide, "Magic Maple" go green.

 

[brettsut]

Thanks for pathfinders comments. The naptha as a carrier and japan dryer are spot on. I'm not multigenerational, but have done my fair share of finishes. Mostly I've done furniture and furniture grade finishes on a few mansions. I love analine dyes, but not for something that is going to get any UV's. They are much better than they were 100 years ago, but still don't last as long as other things. About ten years ago a friend had to completely redo a kitchen done cherry mahogany as it turned green.

Modern (Minwax) types of stains are a combination of pigment and dye. I prefer to make my own pigment based stains, but am often trying to color fill and accentuate grain and figure. I am new to doing guns and am still mulling it over.

I am curious if historically gunsmiths applied tannic acid and then fumed the stocks. I've never tried fuming maple. I don't suppose it would do much without the addition of tannic acid.

I am a fan of George Frank, although he died a few years ago. He was really knowledgable and experimented a great deal.

Brett

 

And the Aqua Fortis turns green.

Dangler's and LMF stains/dyes are superior.

If you believe that AF goes green then I understand why you would believe that some dyes/stain are "superior". However, since chromium trioxide goes green, not AF, it would appear that perhaps you just have your acids confused and therefore, in all likelyhood, have never tried AF. Since you appear to be refering to chromium trioxide then I agree 100% that in the long haul most dyes/stains are superior. I can't believe that chomium trioxide is still being sold as a maple stain :shake:

Cody

 

[crgabel]

I"ve never seen AF go green but have seen a green tint when not enough heat is used.
Craig

 

[pathfinderifh]

I'm a real fan of George Grotz aka "The Furniture doctor." Good book if ya can find it. Lots of good info. So much so that when I was approched to write a book on finishing,I didn't think anything needed to be added to it. Could of embellished and added some modern stuff, but the modern stuff hasn't had enough time to prove itself to me. :nono: Hopfully I'll be around in a hundred years to tell :rotf:

Pathfinder

 

[twotoescharlie]

chromium trioxide-Dixie gun works- follow directions

TTC