At the base of the mountain...

[cmdrstp]

Hello. How are you? My name is Stephen and I'm from upstate New York. While I am not new to firearms or in-line muzzleloading, I am with traditional muzzleloading.

And, I am overwhelmed.

I would love to get in traditional muzzleloading for hunting (whitetail) and simple historical shooting pleasure.

But, I do not know where to begin. So, I will start with the firearm. I think I would like to start with a percussion and round ball. Not that you couldn't talk me into a flintlock.

A firearm model used in US military service, and a history in my neck of the woods, would be attractive as well.

I have interest in any Springfield model but, specifically a .58 Springfield Musket.

That said, price might dictate my "preference." Where does one begin to shop? Who make a respectable replica without breaking one's wallet? I am not against used either.

It would be so nice to find mentors at a group who shoots traditionally.

I know... my questions could take books to answer. I do. But, What advice to do have for someone very interested...and, unfortunately, inexperienced.

Thank you.

Stephen

 

[Zonie]

Welcome to the Forum.

As you asked for an opinion, I'll give mine.

A percussion rifle is the easiest place to start and for someone just beginning I would suggest that you look for a used sidelock gun.

There have been tens of thousands imported over the last 40 years, some good, some not so good but the thing to remember is if the condition of the bore and the lock is in good shape the gun will probably shoot as good as a high dollar gun.

Generally speaking about used guns, the Thompson Center are probably the best. You should be able to find a used one in the $200-$350 area.
The imported guns from Italy are usually better made than the ones from Spain but either will shoot thousands of rounds before they are really worn out.
You should be able to find a fairly good imported half stock or full stock rifle for somewhere around $140-$300.

The Military guns like the Springfield or Enfield are usually priced quite a bit higher. These also require Musket Caps which are more costly and harder to find than the #11 caps used on common guns.

The inline guns that we don't discuss on our forum all have very fast rates of twist in their rifling and the grooves are very shallow. They were made to shoot very expensive projectiles using synthetic powders. I heartily recommend that you do not buy one.

A percussion gun that uses percussion caps will work with Pyrodex or 777, as well as 2Fg or 2Fg black powder. A Flintlock won't. Flintlocks need real black powder for both priming the pan and for the main powder charge. Real black powder can be hard to find locally so this is something to think about before buying your gun.
Under NO CIRCUMSTANCES should you EVER use any type of smokeless powder. They will blow up your gun barrel and cause severe damage to you and to anyone around you.

You will need a powder measure to measure out the proper powder loads and to transport the powder from the container to the barrel. Buy an adjustable one that measures up to 100 grains. They are available from some gun stores and from a number of suppliers like Dixie Gunworks or Track of the Wolf.

The muzzleloading rifle will shoot lead bullets or patched roundballs. Patched roundballs are far cheaper to buy than any other projectile.
The roundball by the way should be about .010 smaller than the rifles bore to allow space for the cotton cloth patch. This means a .50 caliber rifle will use a .490 diameter ball and a .45 caliber rifle will use a .440 diameter ball.

If you choose to shoot patched roundballs you will need some close woven cotton cloth for a patch and something to lubricate it like Crisco, Olive Oil, vegetable oil or something made as a patch lube like Natural Lube 1000.

You don't need any fancy items to clean a muzzleloader. A metal "Jag" that screws onto a ramrod, some thin cotton cloth, some water and some dish washing soap will clean your gun just fine. These jags are each made for one caliber so after you get your gun buy one that is the proper size.

To load your gun, most folks use a "short starter".
This is usually a round wooden ball with a very short dowel sticking out of it and a longer (3") dowel sticking out.
To load your gun place the hammer at half cock and then pour the powder down the bore.
Then place a lubricated patch over the muzzle.
Place the round lead ball in the center of the patch starting it into the bore with your thumb.
Place the short starters short dowel on the ball and tap the ball with your hand to start the patch/ball into the bore.
Follow this with the 3" dowel pushing the ball down until it stops on the muzzle.

Use your ramrod in short 8-12 inch steps to push the ball/patch down on top of the powder.

Cap and fire the gun.

After you have had some fun with your rifle you can start saving up your money for one of the more expensive models. I'm sure you will enjoy muzzleloading and will want more guns than you can afford but that just goes along with this great hobby.

 

[cmdrstp]

Zonie, I can't tell you how much I appreciate your informative and friendly reply. Thank you.

I will look at Thompson Center. That price range seems very tolerable for me right now.

I have stocked up on musket caps (US and CCI). I buy them when I see them. I have also bought all (well, most) necessary accessories through Track of the Wolf as well. Powder flask (brass), powder measure, etc.

Again, thank you.

Stephen.

 

[William O.]

I think the most "bang for your buck" is found with Lyman if you are looking to get right into it. Check out the Great Plains Rifle or a new Trade Rifle. You can get either in caplock or flint and I highly recommend the .54 caliber. You can buy a new Lyman Trade rifle for a little under $350, combine that with the advice already given and it won't cost much more to have everything you need to start shooting paper or deer. You can get the Great Plains Rifle (GPR) with either a slow twist barrel made specifically for shooting round ball (RB) or the fast twist "hunter" barrel, dedicated to shooting lead conicals. The Trade Rifle has a 1:48 twist that will usually shoot RB or conicals fairly well, although each rifle is an indiviual and you'll have to work up the most accurate load for yours, whichever you choose. Either of these rifles comes with both adjustable rear sight or primative so you get to choose your favorite. Let us know what you choose, hope this helps.

 

[cmdrstp]

Thank you very much, bull3540. I appreciate it.

 

[poordevil]

http://www.ssfirearms.com/images/2010 Catalog/2010 Catalog main firearms.pdf

 

[Bob J]

I recommend getting a copy of "The Complete Blackpowder Handbook" by Sam Fadala. Lots of good information on this sport there. The Thompson Center's are a good place to start as Zonie stated. However, in my opinion, The Lyman muzzleloaders are also well made and accurate, with their Great Plains rifles being very nice looking. And I wouldn't rule out finding a used Pedersoli, either.

 

[Vtsmoker]

Others not mentioned are Traditions and Cabellas. I have a Cabellas Hawken which you can get with a starter kit thats pretty decent. Priced around $350-$400. Nice rifle to start out with and IMO it shoots fine. I also have a Traditions Kentucky rifle which is kind of plain lookin but is also a good shooter.

 

[cmdrstp]

Thank you, all.

I do like the T/C and Lymans.

Now where to shop?

 

[Bob J]

Thank you, all.

I do like the T/C and Lymans.

Now where to shop?

Check out Midsouth Shooters Supply - Lyman Great Plains rifles in the 455-489 range.

 

[August West]

Thank you, all.

I do like the T/C and Lymans.

Now where to shop?

Gunbroker has tons of muzzleloaders new and used, and is a good place to compare prices. A used T/C Renegade is a good place to start, with it's 1" barrel and tons of aftermarket parts and barrels. The Renegade is no longer in production but they made thousands of them and the are still plentiful used. Chris

 

[ohio ramrod]

If buying used consider that T.C. has a lifetime no questions asked warrenty. No other manufacture has that!

 

[William O.]

http://www.octobercountry.com http://www.buffaloarms.com http://www.northernrifleman.com http://www.trackofthewolf.com http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com http://www.grafs.com http://www.thegunsource.com
These aren't the only places to buy what you are looking for but hopefully it's a start and will help you find the best price. Always check to see how much shipping is and add that to the price, as sometimes the lowest price comes with the most expensive shipping.

 

[rja72]

I got started a couple years ago and before I bought anything I reached out to the shooting club at work. they gave me the name of a guy who was into traditional black powder guns. I met with him and he showed me his collection. Turns out he was president of a local shooting range/club that had a monthly black powder shoot. I have learned a ton from this forumn and club members.

You might check with your local club to see if there are any black powder shooters locally.

I second the Fadala book. Lots of info in there for a beginner.

I bought the Cabela's Hawken in .50. It shoots well. I have taken the time to find the right patch and powder combo. Many club members have TC and CVAs and do well with them too.

 

[cmdrstp]

Thank you, all.