Authenticity

[btech]

I am becoming interested in purchasing some Civil War firearms, like Springfield's or Colts. Every time I ask one of these auction houses for authenticity they tell me they are just the broker and "accept the word of the seller". This seems very insufficient to me to spend $1500-2000 on a firearm. Am I being unreasonable?

 

[Capt. Jas.]

Authenticity should be based on your accmuulated research and knowledge and not on someone else's word or a piece of paper. JMHO

 

[btech]

My problem is that I don't feel I have enough knowledge to make that decision on my own.

 

[suzkat]

A transaction occurs between a willing seller and a willing buyer. You can't hold the auction house accountable for authenticity. Buyer beware. Do your research first and then buy, or find a mentor, knowledgeable in the field and ask for help. Trust no seller. A good story often drives up the price and stories are just that.

 

[btech]

In the business world if I market something I know is false I can be sued. There are people out there that make a living turning new guns into "antiques". They're very good at it.
All I can say is there is a lot of people paying big money for "antique" guns that are not.

 

[Coot]

If you are uncertain as to originality, you should not buy the item. Among collectors, there is a saying that if something "feels wrong" - even if you cannot put it into words, then something most likely is wrong. As a novice, you may best be served by buying thru a well known and respected dealer who offers a money back guarantee / letter of authenticity. This will cost more than auction or private sales but will be safer. Also, be advised that even the experts make mistakes (just fewer mistakes than others) I have bought misidentified cutlasses from two nationally known dealers. Since they had reputations to protect, it was easy to return one and to wind up keeping the other (actually more rare than represented). Another saying amongst collectors is that whatever you collect, you also need to collect books. Money spent on good reference books is never wasted.

 

[btech]

Yea that's sound advise. I need to back up and start researching.

 

[Coot]

You should also make a habit of seeing (and if possible) handling as many originals as possible. :thumbsup:

 

[btech]

Also good point. Need to try and find some around Mobile AL

 

[Rifleman1776]

you may best be served by buying thru a well known and respected dealer who offers a money back guarantee / letter of authenticity

Amen. That is the bottom line.
To help, since you want CW items, there are many CW reenactment organizations out there. Associating with one, or more, of them will put you in touch with several experts who can advise you well.

 

[George T.]

So do I understand that your looking for the real McCoy? Are they going to be shooters or to look at. I have had pretty good luck on Gun Broker but I have not bought any old firearms. The ones I have bought were always in as good or better than described.

On firearms that are Civil War vintage the condition will have a heck of a lot to do with the price. Opinions can vary a bunch. It really might be a good idea to find a local you can trust to give you input.

Geo. T.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

This seems very insufficient to me to spend $1500-2000 on a firearm. Am I being unreasonable?

As mentioned, either you have to become well versed, or you need to find a person that is such and then trust their opinion.

I recently saw a repro Bess listed as made from a Track of The Wolf kit..., well it was an Italian made gun, not a TOW kit, but the seller corrected the auction listing when informed of the problem. Good seller. :grin:

I saw an antique smoothbore trade gun listed as a "3rd Model Bess". The listing referenced the hardware and a well known sourcebook as proof. Well the photographs were plain to the naked eye that some of the parts came off of a British military musket, but it wasn't at all what the seller said in the listing.

It's not just guns. I have seen folks assume that simply because a collector had antique guns, that all of the items in the collection were antiques, and paid $60 for what was actually a cast steel tomahawk from India that had an OTC price back then for $20. :shocked2:

If you watch "antiques roadshow" you sometimes see folks who have been told they have a really rare item by a relative who gave them the item or by a dealer at a flea market or odd antique store..., only to find out it's worth about what they paid for it... not much.

Find a reputable dealer, who agrees that if you can document that it's not what it was sold as... you can get your money back.

LD

 

[btech]

This is all great advise. I just feel there is a lot of "antique" guns being sold that are anything but. Again and again when I ask for any verification I get "trust me". It amazes me what people are willing to pay for based on no evidence. I guess they just hope it's real. But I still have an issue with a large auction house that will not verify the authenticity of they offer for sale. They should have the expertise to determine it.

 

[anj4de]

Hi

"The Horse Soldier" in Gettysburg http://www.horsesoldier.com/ is a IMHO trust worthy dealer...but rather expensive. Last time I've been there it was like being in paradise, so many good condition original muskets...My original 1861 also came from a Gettysburg dealer, a friend bought it in 1988, it went over the wall with Picket's brigade at cemetary ridge that year, and I bought it from him later when he needed a new heating system for his house... :grin: It's a great gun, very nice ready for service condition, and a good shooter. It came with an original bajonet as well.

cheers
Uwe

 

[btech]

Good looking inventory. Sent them an email asking the same question. If I sold a gun I bought in let's say 10 years or so I would need to prove the authenticity of the gun. "Trust" and positive feedback is great but it doesn't prove anything. If you bought diamond from a jeweler you would want it graded and appraised by an expert. I doubt if you would just "trust" the jeweler.
I could always send it off a gun I buy and pay to get it appraised but then the risk is all on me.
It's pretty difficult to inspect a gun in an on line auction. Most say they have no returns.