ball and patch for .40 caliber

[Bill M.]

Need to order some. Green Mountain barrel. Should I try the .389 or the .395 balls first. What patch?
I am thinking .389 with a .018 patch??

 

[bpd303]

All of my 40s like .390 balls that I cast, with different patching for them.

 

[galamb]

Green Mountain recommends shooting .005" below bore size for hunting and bore size for target (so .395 and .400 respectively) - but that's just "their" recommendation.

I also shoot a 40 and use a .395 roundball with pre-cut/pre-lubed .015 Cotton/Wonderlube, but it's a round bottom rifled Colerain with .012" rifling.

I believe your barrel will have .010" square rifling so my combination may or may not work for you.

I would be inclined, with that barrel to (initially) try the .389 balls and .015" cotton patching.

The .018 patch may be a touch tight after the first ball or so - I have never found a combo with that patch thickness that worked well in my 40 (and .018 pre-lube pillow tick is my favourite all round patch but I don't believe in having to use a mallet to load a ball).

 

[Rifleman1776]

Your choice of a .389" ball is interesting. Do you have a mould or box of balls that size? Really, all we can advise is to try each and use what works best. Buying boxes of Hornaday, or other, pre-made balls is a great way to learn what your rifle likes. Once you settle on what you, and your rifle :wink: , like toss the unused balls into the casting pot. FWIW, my wife's .40 with a Douglas barrel, likes .395" balls and ticking patching. This is a try and try again game.

 

[nkbj]

.397 ball, 40 weight cotton and 40 grains of Jacks Battle in the Sheba gun.

 

[Billnpatti]

I have a .40 cal. Early Lancaster that I built from Jim Chambers. It is a darned good shooting rifle. I found its favorite load is 45 grains of Goex 3f with a 100% cotton drill patch that measures .018 un compressed and .008 compressed. The ball that I use is made by Hornady and measures 0.395. A Ballistol "dry patch" is my lube of choice. Spit also works well as a patch lube in my rifle.

It is intereasting to note that out of curiosity, I wanted to know how much variance in weight there was within the balls that I got from Hornady. I had three unopened boxes and one from which I had fired a few balls. I weighed each box of balls on my Lyman EL-300 electronic scale. The balls had an impressive consistancy in weight. Lot 205059 had a mean weight of 95.4 grains with an extreme spread of 1.0 grains and a std. dev. of 0.3 grains. Lot 99-011 had a mean weight of 94.3 grains, an extreme spread of 0.6 grains and a std. dev. of 0.1 grains. Lot 02-241 had a mean weight of 95.1 grains, an extreme spread of 1.1 grains and a std. dev. of 0.3 grains. From this, I determined that I would feel safe in just using balls straight from a Hornady box without having to weigh them for consistancy. They come from Hornady with the consistancy that I need.

My lube that seems to work best for my rifle is either spit or a dry patch method where I wet the patches with a 1 part Ballistol dissolved in 5 parts water. I saturate the patch material in the mixture, pull it between my fingers to remove any excess and then lay it on an abasolutely flat and level surface to dry. If the surface is not level and flat, the mixture will migrate to the low spots as it drys and the resultant patches will not have an even coating on them.

I prefer to cut my patches at the muzzle but if you prefer to pre-cut your patches, it will make no diference if they are round or square.

Like Rifleman1776 said, it just takes a bunch of carefully methodical experimentation to find the exactly most accurate load for your particular rifle.

Note: I'm trying to type with one bad wing and I seem to manage to get a lot of typos. Please just overlook them for now.

 

[hanshi]

A very nice Lancaster is the only .40 I have....or need. The mold I bought was a Lee .390" and it throws very nice, consistent ball. The .390" ball with 40 grains of JBP (or Goex) patched with .024" ticking lubed with Hoppes #9 Plus BP lube, cuts tight groups at 50 yards and at 100 yards. 60 grains of the same powder will easily hold 4" or under at 100yds which is as good as I can do with ANY rifle. Velocities are 1700fps and 1950fps respectively. My barrel is swamped with square cut rifling.

 

[Bill M.]

Thanks for all the replies. As a first run I am going to try the .389 with a .015 lubed patch. The .389 is the size ball Track of the Wolf sells. They also sell a .395. I will let you all know how it does but it may be a while before I get to shoot it.

 

[Snakebite]

I have a .40 S. Mtn rifle with a GM barrel. I use .395 balls with mink oil lubed blue pillow ticking and that combo works great for me.

 

[Bill M.]

Thanks for all the replies. I still need more help. I have tried .389 cast balls and Hornady .395 balls, both with a .018 wonder lube patch. Both shoot around 6" groups at 50 yards. I am shooting 777ff loads of 50 and 60 grains. The group moved down but stayed about the same size or worse with the heavier loads. For what it is worth both size balls are easy to load. Is the pillow ticking a heavier, tighter wad? Should I try the .400 balls? I guess I will order both. Any other suggestions as to load?

 

[Rifleman1776]

First suggestion is to use real bp. Hope it is available where you live.
Then, of course, test different charges.
Currently, my wife's .40 seems to like 25 gr. of Swiss 3Fg. Haven't fully wrung it out at the range. I only have 35 yards to shoot at my house but it groups well with that. Interestingly, it sounds like a 6" cannon with that charge. :shocked2: Dunno why :idunno:

 

[hanshi]

They do indeed present a sharp CRACK more noticeable than my .50.

 

[Billnpatti]

My .40 seems to like a .390 ball with a .015 patch. I have used both spit and Ballistol as a lube. It seems to like both of them. I use spit when I am shooting paper targets but I use Ballistol when I am hunting. 45 grains of Goex 3f seems to be its favorite load. While 20 grains is not as accurate as 45 grains, it is a fun load for plinking. Absolutely no recoil wiith 20 grains and about like a .22 rf mag. with 45 grains.

 

[jamesthomas]

I use a .395 ball and a .015 patch, Hoppe's No. 9 Plus for Lube with 40 grains of 3fff Goex, 1 1/2 inch groups at 30 yards so far. Weathers been a bit nasty to get out to try father, maybe this weekend,( 74 degrees this weekend).

 

[mooman76]

Pillow ticking comes in different thicknesses. Mattress ticking is thicker or you can go to a denim. If it loads easy try a larger ball or slightly thicker patch.

 

[Bill M.]

Well, I have tried both .390 and .395 balls and .015 cotton and .018 pillow ticking and 30 and 40 grains of FFF. Best I can do is still 6" or so at 50 yards. I have on order some .400 balls and some thinner and thicker patches. Any other suggestions? This is getting expensive to try to work up something that works. Funny. I got the GM barrel to shoot PRBs. (with low recoil) The standard TC .50 barrel shoots PRBs a whole lot tighter than this with no load development at all.

 

[ike]

I shoot a 40 Cal FL. I found that a .40 RB with .15 Pillow ticking and 45 Gr of FFG real black powder works best. The squirrels loose their heads over it. I have a coned barrel for easier loading, but I loaded it with the same combo before I coned the barrel. If your barrel is new it will take some shooting before it starts to group. When I started to group this barrel I started with 25 grains of BP and worked up to 70 Gr in 5 grain increments. When I found the tightest groups one at 45 Gr and one at 65 Gr. Then try different thicknesses of Pillow ticking to tighten up the group. You may also want to try different lubes. I found, and you can read some of my past posts that cold weather has an effect on powder burn rate and some patch lubes get to stiff. (Cold weather below 32 deg. and in Minnesota we shoot a lot colder that that.) I finally found that bear fat worked best for my lube. When I am working up the load I swab the bore after each shot with Hopes #9. This is not a quick process. Keep every 5 shot target and label the target. Also keep a log of each 5 shot group which includes temp, wind, and load. This may sound like a lot of record keeping but then you will not be making the same mistake over and over.
Sorry for the rambling but it does take some time. I hope this helps.

 

[Tom Compton]

Between son and I we have four .40s w Douglas barrels. All shoot 50 gr FFg Goex w .395 and .018 - .022 patch for 25 and 50 yds. Increase the charge to 75 gr and shoot 100 yd targets w no sight change.

Just got a .400 mold sooo... Will be trying that.
TC

 

[Bill M.]

got my .400 round balls today. I drilled one, screwed it onto a screw removal jag, and tried it in the bore with a .010 prelubed patch. I was able to start it by bumping the starter with my hand so I think it will load okay. The ball by itself seem to be the same or slightly smaller than the bore. First time I have seen the patch make an impression on the ball with this gun, so I think maybe this will shoot better. Be next week or later before I can shoot it again.

When you shoot cast balls, where do you put the flat spot from the sprue when you load it? Or do you just start them at random?

 

[Hefner]

I built a .40 cal. Hawken in 1982. It has a 1"x34" Douglas barrel. My best groups at 50 yards or less are based on using a .400 ball (from a double cavity Lyman mold) 45 grains of GOEX 3F, .015 pillow ticking, and Hoppes #9 or Shendoah liquid lube. My son and I have shot several 50-3x off the bench or cross-sticks and I shot a 48-3x off-hand on the 50 yd. six bull at Friendship.
At 100 yds., I increase the powder to 60 grains of 3F with the same sight picture as at 50 yd. I do use a short starter, but no mallet to start the ball. The ball/patch combo loads very easy. Here in Indiana, I can shoot 12-15 shots before needing to run a cleaning patch down the bore.