Ball or new slug types

[paulvallandigham]

Ft/lbs of energy is relevant to modern bullet guns to determine performance on game at long ranges. Because of their smaller diameter, they rely on high velocity to create a SECONDARY WOUND Cavity to shock the system and cause a quick drop in blood pressure.

A Round rarely is going fast enough to cause a secondary wound cavity. It kills because of its initial diameter causing a wide PRIMARY WOUND CHANNEL, and the fact that the soft lead expands at about any velocity and enlarges the primary wound channel as to goes through internal organs. The process of expansion of the initial diameter of the round ball creates EXTRA SHOCK to the internal organs, at the same time that the enlarging primary wound channel increases the amount of damage being done to the tissues. Together, the two forces cause the quicker deaths seen when Lead RBs are used on deer, compared to how long it takes deer to die if hit in the same place with a conical bullet.

There some very real UNEXPECTED consequences when game are shot using those jacketed pistol bullets, at long range( beyond 150 yards), the primary one being that many are no longer going fast enough to expand at all. A heart shot, or a bullet to the spinal cord is going to drop the deer, but other hits, which might prove quickly fatal if made inside 100 yds with a lead RB, will result in wounds that take a long time to bleed out, and the deer may die, but may also not be recovered by the hunter.

 

[Idaho Ron]

Ft/lbs of energy is relevant to modern bullet guns to determine performance on game at long ranges.

Close range (under 200 yards) FPE also shows up with deep penetration as seen in many of the deer I have shot with a conical. When a deer is fully penetrated from the shoulder hitting the main shoulder bone to the flank and passing on through that load has FPE.

A Round rarely is going fast enough to cause a secondary wound cavity. It kills because of its initial diameter causing a wide PRIMARY WOUND CHANNEL, and the fact that the soft lead expands at about any velocity and enlarges the primary wound channel as to goes through internal organs. The process of expansion of the initial diameter of the round ball creates EXTRA SHOCK to the internal organs, at the same time that the enlarging primary wound channel increases the amount of damage being done to the tissues. Together, the two forces cause the quicker deaths seen when Lead RBs are used on deer, compared to how long it takes deer to die if hit in the same place with a conical bullet.

You got to be kidding right. :bull:
A flat wide meplat on the front of a good heavy conical will get the job done as fast or faster than a PRB. Like I said before I have seen a lot of deer killed with a conical. The bullet I showed above drop deer as fast as a centerfire rifle bullet. The combination of a wide flat meplat, heavy weight (460 gr) and speed of over 1300 fps work very well and amazingly fast. No tracking jobs at least with the three I have seen with this bullet.
Now if you want to read how well a PRB works read this one. http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/240013/post/new/#NEW

There some very real UNEXPECTED consequences when game are shot using those jacketed pistol bullets, at long range( beyond 150 yards), the primary one being that many are no longer going fast enough to expand at all. A heart shot, or a bullet to the spinal cord is going to drop the deer, but other hits, which might prove quickly fatal if made inside 100 yds with a lead RB, will result in wounds that take a long time to bleed out, and the deer may die, but may also not be recovered by the hunter.

This is about the only thing we agree to a point on. I don't think that Jacketed pistol bullets will expand at 150+ yards as well as they would at pistol ranges.

Ron

 

[longcruise]

I don't think that Jacketed pistol bullets will expand at 150+ yards as well as they would at pistol ranges.

Probably dependent on initial and retained velocity. I chronographed some 180 gr .429 bullets from my .50 tc and got them over 2,000 fps easily. They would be going about 1250 at 150 yards and would expand. Problem is at 20 yards!!! :shocked2: :shocked2: Probably going to overexpand and/or disintegrate without complete penetration.

The .50 cast that you shoot have the only sensible design for a ml hunting conical. It doesn't need to expand to make a wound channel.

 

[tg]

From our Idaho anti PRB associate

"Now if you want to read how well a PRB works read this one"

The quote was to a link where a deer was lost to a PRB shot, nothing absolute about where the ball hit is really known, the same thing has been happening with centerfires for 150 years and with a PRB or connical shot from a ML on occasion

If that is the best arguement against a PRB you can find you should just give up and go to a modern ML forum where your ideas are the norm, they probably do not care that your moderen ML hunting outfit has a gun with the hammer on the side.Don't bother wasting a lot of your time with a response I will not be getting it

 

[Idaho Ron]

:yakyak: :yakyak: TG, your not worth the time to fight with. Ron

 

[paulvallandigham]

Ron: you are right. I didn't consider a flat Meplat bullet in a MLer, because they were not used Prior to 1865! All the conicals were round nosed, then.

Most of the conicals sold today are also round nosed. The Few Keith Styled Semi-wadcutters do a tremendous job of creating a huge wound channel, and a secondary would channel from the pressure curves that arc off that flat nose.

My Bad! :surrender: :thumbsup: