Travis Gregory
40 Cal.
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2007
- Messages
- 180
- Reaction score
- 0
Where can I find roundball ballistics information for different calibers and barrel lengths?
ballistics information?
- Thread starter Travis Gregory
- Start date
Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2004
- Messages
- 14,767
- Reaction score
- 320
Pick up the Lyman Manual. It doesn't have them all, but quite a few including handgun and shotgun data.
Turkhunter said:
Good answer. Check the local Library for said book.
What are you looking for? The best round for some game hunting? Best trajectory for target use? How to get the hardest hitting load from different calibers with the least amount of work?
Travis Gregory
40 Cal.
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2007
- Messages
- 180
- Reaction score
- 0
Basically I am looking for a general idea of what velocities are produced by what powder charge in whatever length of barrel. Not looking for recommended loads or trajectory data.
don hepler
58 Cal.
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2010
- Messages
- 2,260
- Reaction score
- 10
Google "Round ball ballistics calculator" and you will be able to plug in the specific factors, to let you calculate drop and windage.
This won't help you with velocity.
This won't help you with velocity.
don hepler
58 Cal.
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2010
- Messages
- 2,260
- Reaction score
- 10
Google "Dragonflybridge.com" and there is a velocity calculator. I plugged in a couple of numbers, and it seemed reasonable, but I don't how accurate all these calculators are.
Just remember that this gives you a "ballpark" figure, until you actually chronograph your load. And remember if you're hunting, knowing the exact MV of your particular rifle or gun won't really matter to the deer, in most cases.
LD
LD
I can't say this about all available calculators, but I've tried a few online and compared to my actual chrono tests, they are off by a mile.
I agree with what some others are saying...if you have a reasonable hunting load and stay within the limitations one should for that load, they don't matter one bit.
I agree with what some others are saying...if you have a reasonable hunting load and stay within the limitations one should for that load, they don't matter one bit.
Spot on!
If you want to know what your guns are doing, use a chronograph.
If you want to know what your guns are doing, use a chronograph.
zimmerstutzen
70 Cal.
- Joined
- Apr 2, 2009
- Messages
- 5,848
- Reaction score
- 1,216
there are so many variables, that ballistics calculators are of questionable worth. Add to that the incredible deceleration due to air resistance on a round ball and the initial muzzle velocities are almost worthless for anything that is occurring down range.
Neat thing I learned from ballistic tables, and took a long time to sink in, was how little MV effected down range performance. We often set 100 yards or 150 as the limit of rb hunting. Load your gun magnum or load it moderate and the ball will have its prefomance about the same.
True enough, the deer is not going to notice whether the ball that hit it was travelling at 900 or 1500 feet per second. (An elk might.)
They didn't have 'em in the old days, and didn't need 'em.
But for working up for the possible longer distance shot, or for understanding better what is going on with the various powder charge/patch thickness/ ball diameter/lube combinations you are trying out, the information provided by a chronograph can be very helpful. And chronographing your loads can be fun.
They didn't have 'em in the old days, and didn't need 'em.
But for working up for the possible longer distance shot, or for understanding better what is going on with the various powder charge/patch thickness/ ball diameter/lube combinations you are trying out, the information provided by a chronograph can be very helpful. And chronographing your loads can be fun.
galamb
58 Cal.
While it's easy to calculate the ballistics for factory produced center fire cartridges - they blend their powder in gigantic lots, use computerized machines to control just about the entire loading process, you might think that applying the same calculations to black powder will yield similar results - it just won't.
And as others have noted, my own chrono shows that the black powder ballistics tables are at best "a rough guess" at what you might expect to see.
Black powder shooting is primitive. If you use a fixed powder measure you could be off a few grains compared to what you think you are loading.
Then, table "a" might be assuming you are shooting a 42" barrel with a 1:66 twist with 70 grains of Goex 3F produced in 1977 from batch AB2343 - if none of that applies, even with the same amount of powder, in the same caliber of rifle you could be looking at a 10% variance.
But if you are just looking for "generalizations" books such as the Lyman manual can give you an "idea" of what you might see in comparison.
For example, it shows that with a 50 cal, with a 1:48 twist, 28" barrel (read Lyman Trade Rifle) you might expect to get the following results when shooting a .490 roundball:
70gr of Goex FF and an Ox Yoke .015" prelubed patch and a CCI #11 primer = 1471 fps/muzzle
go with 70gr of Goex FFF, all else the same and you get 1657 fps/muzzle
now swap the Goex for Elephant FF and your muzzle velocity is 1505 fps or 1569 fps if you use their FFF
The different formulations of Pyrodex yielded results in the 1540-1580 fps range.
In this one case there is a dramatic increase between Goex FF and FFF (180'ish fps) but if you look at their numbers for the Great Plains Rifle - so 1:60 twist 32" barrel the same powders results in much "tamer" differences.
70 grains of Goex FF gives you 1627 fps/muzzle. Going with FFF gives you 1655 fps/muzzle - only 28 more fps.
So if you had of looked at the 1:48/28" numbers you would "expect" significant gains moving from FF to FFF - but if you were shooting a GPR instead of a Trade Rifle a couple degrees of temperature change could result in exactly the same chrono results from "either" powder.
Convoluted, but I hope you get the point I'm trying to make - no two rifles, powder, caps, twist rates, weather conditions etc etc etc will be precise enough that you can use some "table" to figure your ballistics.
You need to chrono your gun, the way you load and shoot it, in the conditions that you shoot to determine it's ballistics.
Or forget trying to shoot "mathematically" - find an accurate load and use it without worrying whether it's 1650 fps or 1580 fps. Most game animals don't carry "speed guns" anyhow and I have never seen the "chrono season" listed in the hunting regs :rotf:
And if you want to know where it will impact at 50, 100, 150 and 200 yards - you are going to have to shoot those distances - you can't shoot at 50 and then extrapolate with a paper chart the way you can with a box of Hornady Premiere Sierra 180 gr 30.06 custom ammunition..
(all numbers in the above were taken from the Lyman Black Powder Handbook - 2nd edition)
And as others have noted, my own chrono shows that the black powder ballistics tables are at best "a rough guess" at what you might expect to see.
Black powder shooting is primitive. If you use a fixed powder measure you could be off a few grains compared to what you think you are loading.
Then, table "a" might be assuming you are shooting a 42" barrel with a 1:66 twist with 70 grains of Goex 3F produced in 1977 from batch AB2343 - if none of that applies, even with the same amount of powder, in the same caliber of rifle you could be looking at a 10% variance.
But if you are just looking for "generalizations" books such as the Lyman manual can give you an "idea" of what you might see in comparison.
For example, it shows that with a 50 cal, with a 1:48 twist, 28" barrel (read Lyman Trade Rifle) you might expect to get the following results when shooting a .490 roundball:
70gr of Goex FF and an Ox Yoke .015" prelubed patch and a CCI #11 primer = 1471 fps/muzzle
go with 70gr of Goex FFF, all else the same and you get 1657 fps/muzzle
now swap the Goex for Elephant FF and your muzzle velocity is 1505 fps or 1569 fps if you use their FFF
The different formulations of Pyrodex yielded results in the 1540-1580 fps range.
In this one case there is a dramatic increase between Goex FF and FFF (180'ish fps) but if you look at their numbers for the Great Plains Rifle - so 1:60 twist 32" barrel the same powders results in much "tamer" differences.
70 grains of Goex FF gives you 1627 fps/muzzle. Going with FFF gives you 1655 fps/muzzle - only 28 more fps.
So if you had of looked at the 1:48/28" numbers you would "expect" significant gains moving from FF to FFF - but if you were shooting a GPR instead of a Trade Rifle a couple degrees of temperature change could result in exactly the same chrono results from "either" powder.
Convoluted, but I hope you get the point I'm trying to make - no two rifles, powder, caps, twist rates, weather conditions etc etc etc will be precise enough that you can use some "table" to figure your ballistics.
You need to chrono your gun, the way you load and shoot it, in the conditions that you shoot to determine it's ballistics.
Or forget trying to shoot "mathematically" - find an accurate load and use it without worrying whether it's 1650 fps or 1580 fps. Most game animals don't carry "speed guns" anyhow and I have never seen the "chrono season" listed in the hunting regs :rotf:
And if you want to know where it will impact at 50, 100, 150 and 200 yards - you are going to have to shoot those distances - you can't shoot at 50 and then extrapolate with a paper chart the way you can with a box of Hornady Premiere Sierra 180 gr 30.06 custom ammunition..
(all numbers in the above were taken from the Lyman Black Powder Handbook - 2nd edition)
hadden west said:
i have used the lyman manual along with the rb ballistics calculator for my .32, .36 and .62 calibers on game and paper and they have been spot on. the .32 in particular, out to 100+ yards for woodchucks, has been right on.
When you say "spot on" do you mean muzzle velocity, or down range effects??
LD
LD
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2013
- Messages
- 20,091
- Reaction score
- 1,025
Best, and simplest solution..... :thumbsup:
Ballistic tables, computers, software programs, wiz wheels, slide rules, range cards. etc....are all useful tools.....But you have to know how to use them, and even then you still have to fire your gun.
Most people underestimate the value of a missed shot.
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2005
- Messages
- 7,128
- Reaction score
- 5,430
Loyalist Dave said:
Only the elements that can be subjected to mathematical calculation can be measured, certainly not the down-range effect.
tac
Why do that?
It is much easier to learn muzzle loading and shooting sitting at a keyboard and monitor than shooting.
Geeze....when you go shooting you get your gun and hands dirty.
No point in that when you have tables, charge and calculators available on the internet. :shake:
Get with the times. :shocked2: :wink:
And for the gullible who might actually think I was serious..... :blah: :rotf:
Graham,
I agree with everything you wrote.
The chronograph only tells you what your gun did, with the load you used, when you shot it. For me, it satisfies my curiosity.
But, even as I wrote the previous post, I realized that using the chrony is stepping out of the "primitive" experience that most of us seek in shooting these old guns.
And, as you said, we have to shoot our loads, in our guns, at whatever chosen distances, to see how it all performs together. Not shooting "mathematically", just shooting - and lots of it.
Thanks for a good discussion. :thumbsup:
Richard/Grumpa
I agree with everything you wrote.
The chronograph only tells you what your gun did, with the load you used, when you shot it. For me, it satisfies my curiosity.
But, even as I wrote the previous post, I realized that using the chrony is stepping out of the "primitive" experience that most of us seek in shooting these old guns.
And, as you said, we have to shoot our loads, in our guns, at whatever chosen distances, to see how it all performs together. Not shooting "mathematically", just shooting - and lots of it.
Thanks for a good discussion. :thumbsup:
Richard/Grumpa
Similar threads
