Ballistol rust or no?

[stude 283]

zonie,
Just curious when you had your problem with ballistol did you actually see rust in your bore or was your patch rusty looking?
I definitely agree barricade is a better long term protector. Ballistol ,in my opinion ,is also adequate if not put in storage for long periods and can be used as a one source product.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I decided to go to the source for the facts.The following is the response from Patric Polumbo of Ballistol USA.

I thank you for posting the reply. I apparently have not been using Ballistol exactly as recommended, so I will try it again.

However... WD-40 I have found works well on bores...Birchwood Casey Barricade is even better, so all of the bores that I protect right now are getting Barricade.

LD

 

[David W.]

I fully read Mr. Palumbo's comments.
As for solutions that can penetrate steel, the only ones I'm familiar with will eat into the metal by dissolving it.

Birchwood Casey says "Barricade Rust Protection rapidly drives out moisture from metal pores and deposits a transparent protective coating which seals the surface".

I don't think Ballistol's statement means anything different.

 

[Billnpatti]

Well, Stude, it sounds as if you want to use Ballistol as your rust preventive of choice. I like the stuff, too, but not for long term storage. Long term meaning more than a couple of days. Like I said, my preference is Barricade but if you want to use Ballistol for your long term storage, go for it. Different strokes for different folks. Let us know how it works for you.

 

[Billnpatti]

I'm not sure what the folks at Birchwood-Casey mean by saying that Barricade drives out moisture from the metal pores. I did some reading a while back about pores in iron and steel and as iron is converted to steel, the atoms of carbon essentially fill in the gaps between the iron atoms within and between the iron crystals. As more carbon and other elements are added these interstitial spaces become smaller and smaller thus reducing the porosity. By the time the steel is made into steel suitable for use as gun barrels, there is a lot of reduction of interstitial space or pore size. This results in the pores being smaller than the relatively huge oil molecules. At this point, oil can no longer enter the pores to drive out any moisture. In fact, the pores can become so small that not even water molecules can get in. http://www.esabna.com/euweb/oxy_handbook/589oxy9_1.htm

However, water molecules can get ON the surface of metals and react with them to form iron oxide or rust. Products such as Barricade. Ballistol or WD-40 can displace the water molecules from the surface of the metal and form an occlusive covering over the surface of the metal which keeps oxygen and water molecules away from the metal surface. The efficacy of each product to displace water molecules will vary. The length of time this occlusive covering will last will vary from product to product. For this reason, I use a Ballistol in water with a bit of soap to do the actual cleaning of my guns. I use WD-40 to displace the water from the surface of the metal once it is clean. That is its stated purpose. I then use Barricade to protect the metal of my guns from rust because that is its stated purpose which it does very well.

That is what I do in keeping my guns clean and preserving them. It works very well for me. Others may have a different way and that's okay. To each his own.

 

[David W.]

Billnpatti,
That statement came from Birchwood Casey, not me.

 

[Billnpatti]

Yes, I acknowledged that it was a Birchwood-Casey statement, not yours. I hear what they say but I do not understand it in the application to gun metal. I do understand that other forms of steel and iron such as cast iron have relative large pores and the Birchwood-Casey statement could be correct in those applications.

No, I fully understand that the claim was that of Birchwood-Casey, not you.

 

[David W.]

Steel barrels do not have a perfectly flat surface. There are always machine tooling marks in barrel manufacturing and other imperfections. Perhaps that is what they mean.

 

[Kentuckywindage]

Two of the barrels were treated with Montana x treme Gun Oil Inside and Outside.

One other barrel was treated with Birchwood Casey Barricade.

After cleaning and degreasing them, they were lightly oiled inside and out. I did leave a good amount of oil on the externals when i used the Montana x treme gun oil. Barricade i sprayed on and it dried over time and left a smooth finish on the barrel.

Setting them outside for 2 weeks, they got snowed one Twice, completely iced over and brought inside the house like you would during a hunting situation and then taken back outside the next morning.

Here are the results:

Bottom to Top
Montana X treme gun oil
Birchwood Casey Barricade
Monana X treme gun oil

Close up
Montana Xtreme gun oil TOP
Birchwood Casey Barricade BOTTOM

Barricade Close Up.

With the Barricade protected barrel the ONLY rust spot is just above the Hinge pin hole. Its a very light yellow - orange color. I looked this entire barrel over and that was ALL i could find on it.

The stainless steel barrel really surprised me at how much rust developed on it. The main portion of the barrel had only one small speck of rust.

The blued barrel coated with Montana X treme gun oil showed a great deal of rusting in multiple area's throughout the length of the barrel. After cleaning the rust off, some deeper rusty areas did leave behind discoloring in the bluing and minor pitting.

 

[David W.]

Interesting.

 

[Billnpatti]

Well, whatever the basis for their claim, Barricade is an excellent product and is the product of choice for rust protection for me. :thumbsup:

 

[David W.]

I can't deny that.

 

[Zonie]

IMO, the comment by Barricade about driving water out of the metals pores can be attributed to someone in their advertizing department.

This same person has had several jobs over the past years, working for Ballistol and for Thompson Center.

He is most famous for his idea that claims Thompson Center Bore Butter would "Season the bore". :rotf:

To answer the question about actually seeing rust, no, I did not run a borescope down my rifles bore so I did not see any rust.

A dry wiping patch came out with a light layer of rust on it.
As for this light layer of rust being due to my not cleaning the bore adaquately, I say bearsfanny. Residue left in a bore from poor cleaning is not orange. It is black or gray.

Orange is rust and even the slightest amount of it indicates the surface of the bore has been oxidized.

I might reiterate, Barricade does not allow this oxidation to occur.

 

[RonRC]

I had read of experiments with different cleaners and rust preventatives on some smokeless powder sites. Ballistol and Barricade are not included in these tests, but several other commonly used products are (CLP, Eezox, RemOil, etc.).

I post these sites because they might be helpful and the results are dramatically different for the cleaners and preventatives.
Link
Link
Ron

 

[stude 283]

Just an observation!
The initial contact with ballistol was to inquire what the staining was after starting to use ballistol. Several replies to the negative responses suggested that the staining was not rust,but "something" else.
The response was "I know what rust looks like"
!Now if these respondents have such a perfect system that there is no chance of a speck of rust in their firearms,how did they become such experts on something they have never seen?
Some are content in knowing theirs is the best and some are always looking for something that might improve on the old ways.As long as we all have fun who cares.
We are mostly here to further this exchange of information or we would not bother.I hope this helped those who can view with an open mind.

 

[nymtber]

I used ballistol on a pietta 1858 revolver, never got rust at all, even sitting for a year without being used.

HOWEVER, it was stored in a gun safe with a remington plug in to re-charge desiccant. I also cleaned in HOT soapy water, and dried the frame in the oven on the lowest setting for about 10 minutes, then oiled heavily and wiped off excess. I used Pyrodex...

I now use Barricade because I bought some when I got my GPR kit, as everyone here recommends it.


To be honest, I never got rust with Rem-Oil, and people have said its not good either. I don't live near salt water, but upstate NY sure gets humid in summer.

 

[awebbersr]

Having read your references, I went out and bought some Break Free CLP. I worked over all my muzzle loaders with it. The only one that showed it was needed was the new(to me), Traditions Hawken Woodsman. It required scrubbing but deep inside the upper barrel looked fine. Patches come out clean now, thanks much. :thumbsup:

 

[fraungie]

I am with Zonie. I used Ballistol full strength to clean my bore. I am also a big fan of Murphys oil soap Hydrogen peroxide and alcohol. I cleaned my rifle with Ballistol The patches came out black not brown. I continued until they were clean. I then dried the barrel and put on a coat of Ballistol to the inside and outside of the barrel. The next day I always run a dry patch down the bore and re oil. The patch came out rusty brown. Rust is rust and it sure looked like rust to me. When I switched to Barricade the next day patches would come out clean. Keep in mind I did put Ballistol on the outside of the barrel Nd noticed no rust. But the outside of my barrels are either blued or browned. Bluing and browning are actually a controlled rust. This may explain that. The inside of the barrels are raw steel. I will stick to the barricade or Wally's original rapid fire lube. I see no rust using these. Wally's seems to work the best. Ballistol is a great wood polish. I put some on an old Zenith radio and it looks like new. I use it on all my wood stocks.

 

[azmntman]

rawhide, that one may have lived somewhere east. We here in AZ have not alot of trouble with humidity (cept a few weeks in July). I believe I get sme too, have a few small bores that seem to take FOREVER to get the black out even if shot just a few times at bunnies or tree rats :grin:

 

[awebbersr]

Thanks :thumbsup: