Balls and overpowder cards

[Gene L]

On another board, a guy was talking about using leaves off a hornet's nest as an overpowder wad/card. When I asked why this was necessary, another member who shoots chunk matches said about 90% of chunk gun shooters do so, (but not necessarily a hornet's nest,) to prevent the patch from burning through. I check my patches and haven't seen one burn through yet.

I was astounded to hear this. I searched here and while I found references to overpowder cards/wads, but nothing in this context.

Can anyone enlighten me on this?

 

[mooman76]

I have never had a need to try it but I have heard of it many times. I even read in one of the black powder books of this.

 

[buford87]

I began using an over powder wad back in the mid 1980's when a friend I was hunting with had his powder charge killed by his patch lubricant. I have since read where some of the early twentieth century shooters used a wad to protect their patches from burning through. For either purpose an over powder wad is simple to use and can set your mind at ease.......watch yer top knot........

 

[Gene L]

Well, Buford, I see the possibility of need for a patch lubricant problem, but what I'm interested in mostly is target shooting where one loads and shoots in a matter of minutes.

I wonder about the history of overpowder wads/cards in rifles. And I realize that successful actions are frequently copied without any real physical evidence of its efficacy.

I would like to shoot a chunk match if I didn't have to travel a long way to do so. If I did, I'd need every advantage.

 

[homebrew .357]

Hell, I would not like to be near the guy who plucked a leaf off a hornets nest!!, those things get angry mitey quick. :nono: . Hombrew.357.

 

[Wes/Tex]

Actually, he should have said using the nest material itself as a wadding between powder and shot. Wasp nest, tow, pulled apart sisal rope, Spanish moss or even clover and leaves have been used. Tow is an old material and has been used for centuries. They all will work with a larger wad between powder & shot and a smaller wad above the shot. Most natural fibers could probably be used. :thumbsup:

 

[will5a1]

I often use overpowder wads (usually dry felt) with PRB's for a number of reasons, they work for me and I know some here don't think they have any utility, but the wads work for me.

With very heavy loads the wads prevent burn through, as an example I will be hunting again this year with a .58 that just seems to shoot well with heavy loads, so the load I will be using is 130 grs of OE FFg, a felt wad, and the ball patched with .015 pillow ticking, mink oil lube. If I don't use a wad the patches are burned and torn up, and the groups are unacceptable, with the wads the rifle (a Navy Arms Hawken Hunter) shoots cloverleafs 3 shoot groups, off the bench.

I have a Tingle .45 rifle that I think of as my offhand gun, my offhand shooting is awful but off the bench with lighter loads this Tingle just shoots better when I use a wad - the patches are not getting torn up or burned without the wad, it just groups better with wads. Just what that rifle likes.

Not all of my rifles like the wads, but I figure wads are just another tool to use if needed.

I think I have read historical accounts of wads and leather disks being used in the 1800's in rifles but I can't offer a reference.

 

[nkbj]

In the 1970's when my brother was developing his hunting load for a .54 Renegade he selected the power level he wanted and set about to make it accurate. Yeah, that's pretty much the opposite of how people generally approach making a muzzleloader accurate but this was for a hunting load to shoot accurately as far and as flat as would work. Part of the formula was an over powder gas barrier. Along with the fine texture tight weave ticking that was made in America back then, neatsfoot oil and a pretty much maxed out charge of FFG, hornet nest paper worked.

 

[Billnpatti]

I have never used OP cards in a rifle but I have often used OP wads made of felt (only pure wool felt). I lube my wads with Bore Butter but other lubes will work, too. The purpose for an OP wad is twofold. First, it makes a better seal for the hot gasses to keep them from blowing by your patch. In many cases, using an OP wad will result in more consistent muzzle velocities which in turn will result in improved accuracy. The other purpose for an OP wad is to prevent burn through on your patches when you are using very heavy hunting loads or if you are one of the folks who want to turn their muzzleloading rifle into a magnum rifle.

I, too, have heard of folks using wasp or hornet nest material as well as a host of other natural materials for making an OP wad. I prefer to use hard felt that I buy in sheets from Duro Felt. http://www.durofelt.com/image_26.html I lube the sheets and then punch out my wads. I have a punch that I bought from a fellow on this forum who goes by the name of Ohio Ramrod. [email protected] He will make you a custom punch for less than you can buy one anywhere else. If you have a drill press or an arbor or bearing press, be sure to ask about a press adaptor for your punch.

 

[Gene L]

Hell, I would not like to be near the guy who plucked a leaf off a hornets nest!!, those things get angry mitey quick. :nono: . Hombrew.357.

Hornets abandon their nests in winter...leaving quite a bit of material. I guess wasps do this, too. Never thought about using a hornet nest for wadding; once I tried to burn one but they don't burn easily.

I would not use tow at this time of year where I live as we're going through a drought and leaving burning tow after a shot would likely start a fire.

 

[crockett]

I'd just use a felt wad rather than the hornet nest but the results vary with the rifle. I've never heard of the wad making for worse accuracy but sometimes it helps and sometimes there isn't any difference.

 

[Maven]

Sam Fadala promoted the use of hornets' nest material (atop/over the powder charge) as a cure for patch burn through in several of his black powder handbooks. It may enhance accuracy though [only] indirectly as it prevents blown patches.

 

[biliff]

In the FWIW category, while working up loads for one of my .54's I was having some issues with the patch burning thru. Tried a 20ga felt wad over the powder and accuracy improved pretty radically. Kept experimenting and eventually came up with a patch material/thickness that worked without the wad. I think of it more as a temporary fix to a problem that has a better solution.

 

[hanshi]

I started using an op wad years ago when a rifle I liked burned and tore patches. The wad worked out fine. At the range I use toilet paper, which works great, but in the bush I only use a wad for the first shot of the day. After an initial shot I just skip the wad. Often a wad will give better accuracy and (I've noticed) sometimes higher velocities. It frequently brings uniformity to velocities.

 

[Vaino]

My .54 cal. elk load is 120 grs 3f w/ a PRB and have never experienced a defective fired patch. Why? Because my patch lube works as intended and the patch thickness is quite sufficient to obturate the grooves.

OP wads composed of whatever are a false panacea for an improper patch thickness or a patch lube that doesn't do its job.

We in these modern times have a tendency to complicate things and an OP wad of whatever mat'l is a complication....caused by insufficient research and range testing and in some instances, a reluctance to try different patch thicknesses and lubes....Fred

 

[FishDFly]

As well said as it can be said by a person with knowledge.