Barrel cleaning issue

[Art Caputo]

IMO, there are a couple of factors that contribute to carbon build-up. The first is that many factory grade barrels have a fairly rough finish and even attempting to smooth them out with an abrasive(JB, etc) may not fully resolve the issue with completely smoothing the barrel and reducing carbon accumulation. Custom barrels(Rice, GM, etc) with the possibility/practice of finer finishing seem to be less susceptible to build-up. The other is cleaning method. Carbon is not water soluble, and even with the addition of soap/detergents, the patch may come out clean, but carbon build up may bond to the barrel, particularly in the area where the carbon ring/resistance is felt. I have had very good success, not only with my own rifles, but a few of my buddies experiencing this problem with their rifles, cleaning/removing carbon build-up using MAP(Murphy’s, Isopropyl Alcohol, 3% Peroxide/ 4:6:6 mix). While not historically correct, and many opinions about the using 3% peroxide in our barrels, it does appear to be quite effective in removing carbon build up in the barrel/breach. The peroxide content(weak acid) ends up being less then 1% of the total solution, and only exposed to the barrel for about 5minutes. After years of use, and careful inspection of my barrels, I have seen no ill effects on the barrel, as well as no carbon accumulation when using a bore scope. Interestingly, when the solution is poured out of the fouled barrel after 5 minutes and subsequently swabbed dry, there are no signs of black/carbon in the effluent, used patches, or the barrel/breach. It is claimed that the peroxide(MAP) complexes with the carbon resulting in the peroxide and carbon, forming water, carbon dioxide, and hydrogen. The small amount of peroxide deactivates(oxidizes) when exposed to the carbon. The Murphy’s, alcohol, and residual water assist in solubilizing(cleaning) the salts and other residues. Much like many shooters, when in the field, I will clean with water or a mix of detergent and water….But will follow up at some point later, using MAP “chemically” to get rid of residual carbon. Just my approach…

 

[Sam squanch]

Souther bloomers is another product to avoid

Well, I guess I’ll return the ones I have to the neighbors clothes line….

 

[user 28522]

Unused I hope!!!

 

[Sam squanch]

I am reminded of when I was in elementary school. A strange person was caught stealing underwear from clothes lines in town- everyone hung stuff out to dry back then. He had a mound of panties in his basement, according to the cops …

 

[FlinterNick]

I would take a .50 call or smaller worm, and ball on the worm end Brillo soap steel wool, and brush out with hot water. Then after, jag out the bore with a .45 or turned down .50 cal jag and a patch made of thin sheep’s skin, like a chamise cloth. Coat the chamise cloth with Tripoli brown or green compound wax. With each pass shim the jag and patch with a piece of paper, this will get the patch with compound closer to the rifling. I learned this a a few blackpowder fairs in PA, works very well for cleaning out some heavy build up. As for the rifling being dulled, not to worry as long as you’re using a lighter compound of around 1500-2000.

 

[RobWheeler]

http://www.montanaxtreme.com/products/?id=8&product=CopperCreamThis another product I’ve tried, JB worked better in my opinion although this did continue to pull black out of the barrel.
My cleaning material as I remember is a “lining” maybe a drapery lining I got from the local fabric store and I cut to 1 1/2” squares. It is VERY tight to get started in the 45 and if doubled it it is tight as well in the 50’s.
The carbon ring I have only experienced when I cranked the load up to 75-80 grains for 100 yard testing. It was easily removed at the range with a damp cleaning patch followed by a dry one.
When I did drop one of those bobber lights down the bore you could make out small areas of fouling in the bore groove. After scrubbing with the brush/ patch combo w/ Hoppes patch lube the spots I notices were gone. Little by little I’m making progress, I did run loose wet patches of Hoppes down the bore to soak over night. IMHO the Butches Bore shine didn’t work as well as the Hoppes did on this fouling.
Just as a side note, after cleaning the barrel to the point the water exiting is clean I blow compressed air down the bore followed by WD40 allowing that to sit overnight. The next day I pass another wet WD40 patch down the bore followed by Wonderlube 1000. Prior to a range trip I pass at least two clean dry patches down the bore to remove those two ingredients.
Once I get this fouling from the barrel I was thinking about trying something different to keep the rust at bay between range trips, something that will be easily removed with Brake cleaner perhaps. I was then going to switch to using the tin of Mink oil I have and see how that goes.
Thank you for your thoughts as I try to work thru this.

As a note -- very fine particles of most metals will be black. So you may be in a catch 22 loop.

rob

 

[user 28522]

Anybody have any thoughts on wetting the carbon build up with Kroil? Supposed to creep into very small space and claims to remove carbon. I don’t know if it will work on this carbon but I may give it a try because I can still feel high spots going back and forth with a tight patched jag.

 

[bigstick6017555]

At this point you are going to have to put a bore scope down the barrel to really find out the real problem. Easier said than done, not everybody has one sitting around. If you could find someone you know with one to help you out, or borrow one would be a plus. Might be worth the trip to a gunsmith with one, to take a look. Good Luck

 

[FlinterNick]

Anybody have any thoughts on wetting the carbon build up with Kroil? Supposed to creep into very small space and claims to remove carbon. I don’t know if it will work on this carbon but I may give it a try because I can still feel high spots going back and forth with a tight patched jag.

good luck degreasing kroil

 

[FlinterNick]

Fyi i send my barrels to bobby hoyt to service for 20-30$ worth every penny

 

[Woody Morgan]

Fyi i send my barrels to bobby hoyt to service for 20-30$ worth every penny

Especially if you have a particularly scummy bore(s). Might avail myself of that opportunity.

wm

 

[Josephg]

Anybody have any thoughts on wetting the carbon build up with Kroil? Supposed to creep into very small space and claims to remove carbon. I don’t know if it will work on this carbon but I may give it a try because I can still feel high spots going back and forth with a tight patched jag.

Years ago I had a CVA rifle with a lumpy bore. It was a defective bore. Loading and cleaning, the ramrod went clunk clunk clunk from one end to the other. It was very accurate with PRB. I pulled the breech plug and took a look in there but it made me dizzy so I put it back together and shot the hell out of it. Yes, take a look with a bore scope. If it has carbon buildup you will see it easily.

 

[user 28522]

So after 4 months of cleaning, trying different products and buying a bore scope here’s what it looks like. There are areas that something interfered with the rifling button in my estimation. Some of these are on top of the rifling and some spiral down the lands. In my opinion, these are what is causing the “ high and low” feel as you patch down the bore, it was especially bad with the carbon build up. I believe the carbon appreciates a rough surface to hang onto as apposed to a smooth surface. There is plenty of pitting in the barrel although most all seem to be shallow and don’t appear to have jagged edges to them. Some still contain carbon and will have to be monitored after we get back to the range. In my defense I did purchase the rifle used and did get rust from the barrel prior to my very first range trip so what I thought was clean was far from it.

Products I used:
Hoppes #9 bore cleaner
Hoppes #9 patch lube and bore cleaner
Hoppes #9 Bench rest bore cleaner
Butch’s bore cleaner
Free All penetrant
Kroil
J-B bore bright
J-B bore cleaning compound
Bore Butter

I might be missing a few but you get the point, if it was sitting on the bench it went down the bore. I will say that Butch’s bore shine and a 50 cal. bronze pistol bore brush woke up the carbon. When I used the two Bore bright products I would rub them in a patch and then wrap it around a worn out 50 cal pistol brush and let my nose tell me it was still getting carbon fouling.
Some of the products like Hoppes I would let sit in the barrel for days and them chase it with a brush, neither of those two products produced very good results for me and I did give them a few opportunities.
The bore butter on occasion would appear to be softening the fouling but only VERY minimally. The Free All was quite surprising, it did keep getting carbon out with patches alone. It was slow but none the less it kept trying and producing.

So my cleaning portion is over, the carbon that remains in the pitting will be monitored to ensure that it doesn’t spread. I don’t think the pits are going to cause any problems because I’m thinking they were there from the beginning and the rifle did produce some good groups way back when. All the pits I encountered with the bore scope appear to be pretty shallow so my plan is to switch to a non liquid lube, something that won’t evaporate when the barrel has some heat in it.

The bore scope I purchased is a Teslong 36” flexible wand. I also picked the larger dia. mirror kit that allows a better view of the bore, it will fit a .200” bore. For the money it gives some pretty good views of what you are up against, it’s also wi-fi so you can view on your phone or I-pad while scoping.

Thanks to all that made suggestions along the way.

Longone

 

[user 28522]

BTW, this is a pic of the rifling on my Pedersoli RM Hawken.

 

[Josephg]

You keep cleaning that bore and you aint a gonna have no rifling left. I ain't had time to read the whole thread yet but it don't look all that bad to me.

 

[hanshi]

I shoot a 45 quite a bit. I also use about 50 grains FFF and PRB. Rifle will load and shoot accurate all day without swabbing between shots and without cleaning.

I always use a spit patch. Really wet spit patch. It's cheap..... Rifle is cleaned and oiled immediately after a shooting session. I have not used water hot or cold since 1974. BLACK-SOLVE on patches for cleaning.

Black Solve is definitely a great cleaner and works great as a patch lube. I guess I should get another bottle.