Barrel leading?

[stormcrow]

If you are getting good accuracy I wouldn't change a thing for now. At the end of the season use some JB's bore paste to remove any leading that might be present.

 

[jdkerstetter]

Another product for you to try is Kleen-Bore's "Lead Away" patches or wipes. I grew up in Ohio where slug-guns are the rule during deer season and we found these to really wipe out the lead in a hurry.

Enjoy, J.D.

 

[cynthialee]

Well excuse me sir. All I did was make a statement of facts. I din't come down on him for his bullet choice, just threw my 2cents in...

 

[cynthialee]

Sorry, that was a little snapish and rude.
:surrender:

 

[4given]

Well excuse me sir. All I did was make a statement of facts. I din't come down on him for his bullet choice, just threw my 2cents in...

I never took your comments as rude.I asked of opinions and got them!

 

[cynthialee]

That was aimed at robtattoo

 

[robtattoo]

No offence taken at all! :hatsoff:

 

[Dphar]

It kicks about like a 12 gauge. No biggie. I know a lot of folks on this board say a PRB is fine. Most of the elk hunters here in the west I have talked to use a conical for elk so being a blackpowder newbie that is what I chose. A PRB would be a lot simpler it seems. Haveing read a lot of Elmer Keith I have a lot of faith on BIG & SLOW

I was not disadvantaged by starting MLing after the TC Hawken et al and all the ML bullets hit the market. I started out shooting round balls and never saw the need for the bullets.
In fact I find it hilarious that now, with the advent of the various plastic stocked MLs, the inlines etc, the TC factory mades "Hawken" etc are now thought to be "traditional MLs". Something they were not seen as when they first hit the market.

If you need a projectile of 450 grains then you need a 67-69 caliber rifle shooting a RB between 440-480 grains.
It will be head and shoulders over the conical.
But you won't find the rifle in a pawn shop for 175 bucks either...
Forsythe, shooting a 14 gauge rifle with a 15 gauge ball with 137 gr of powder shot through the shoulders of a Sambar Stag at 250 yards. But this was in the 1850s, the critters were obviously much easier to kill back then...
People who hunt with MLs should read Forsythe's "The Sporting Rifle and Its Projectiles" it can be found as a download on the WWW at least a couple of years ago. John Baird reprinted it back in the 1970s so it might be possible to find one of these if a hard copy is preferred. The interior ballistics are "19th c." but the performance is easily duplicated with similar rifles today.
If you hunt elk with the conical make sure you keep the gun muzzle up. The "naked" bullets have had a rep for sliding away from the powder for 160+ years. Not as common when not horse back, but still its not something one wants to learn about the hard way.

Dan

 

[Dphar]

No offence intended to anyone here (I myself am a roundball hunter) but if the guy has confidence in the accuracy & effectiveness of his load, why on earth would he change it?
Yes, we all know that a PRB of sufficient caliber will pretty much relegate any animal on the planet to the past tense. However this is not what was asked about.
Why do so many folk insist on 'bashing' guys who choose to shoot conicals instead of balls? Both are up to the task! There is no doubt at all that a conical is no more effective than a PRB, however there is also no doubt that it is no less so (in the same way that a deer shot with a 7mm ultra magnum is no less dead than with a .30-30)

I agree that there are significant cost advantages, along with many fine-tuning advantages , to shooting a ball, but if the kid can hit what he's shooting at consistently & reliably with enough force to kill whatever game he's pursuing, who are we to argue?

Stating known facts and putting forth cautions is not "bashing". I really don't care what people shoot through their MLs so long as I am told so I can stay away from them as needed.
There are safety and yes effectiveness issues with some designs that are not going to be read about in the magazines.
For example I have had several people describe the dismal effectiveness of the original Maxi-Ball.
One related, either on this site or a similar one, having his wife shoot a deer center of the lungs or through the shoulder area broadside with a 45 maxi then killing the deer the NEXT YEAR and finding the scars where it had snicked through like an AP. The original Maxi does not expand well, I am told, the front driving band collapses into the front lube groove making a sharp pointed bullet. People I know who tried hunting Canadian Moose with them had such poor results they reverted to the 54 RB and then to larger RBs in the 69-75 caliber range. One relates watching another hunter in the valley below shoot a Moose at 175 yards with a 54 RB and getting a one shot kill and virtually no tracking. He (and I also) think it was "inadvisable" to shoot that far. But the moose apparently did not know he was shot with a RB and piled up quickly... Moose are pretty dumb. Had he known he had been struck by a 54 RB at maybe 750-800 fps he might be alive today :rotf:

Then there is the pressure thing, the eroded nipples, the recoil, the trajectory is often higher than is optimum for hunting to 120 yards.
A friend of mine reported meeting a hunter in the woods with the nose and front driving band of a maxi protruding from the muzzle.
My own testing some years indicates its "plausible" that this will occur. If the muzzle is down and the gun bumped or jarred the bullet may move.
The military Minie was notorious for this.
Its been known for a very long time. So there are safety issues beyond high pressure at the breech.

Since naked bullets were known from at least the 1830s-40s we need to ask why, if they are so much better how is it the RB was the primary hunting bullet for MLs until mass market modern MLs and the attendant advertising hype arrived in the 1970s?
Back before the "modern ML" came on the scene hunters went to the various states to get MLs approved for hunting. They had to PROVE that the RB would kill game. It was proven and many states, unfortunately, set up special ML seasons. Most of which now have been taken over by masses of people shooting scope sighted, plastic stocked, stainless barreled inlines. So the people shooting traditional MLs have been crowded out of their season by people shooting saboted jacketed bullets backed by semi-smokeless or even smokeless powder that propels the bullet at velocities beyond the HV 45-70 loads. Essentially a Model 700 Remington with a loading rod.
It makes the season, designed to give the ML hunter a better chance due to his primitive weapon, a joke. The hunting pressure is so great there is no "better chance" now. They should simply lump all the gun seasons into one as Montana does. But the inline makers would never stand for this. Their sales would collapse overnight.

Dan

 

[Rat Trapper]

It kicks about like a 12 gauge. No biggie. I know a lot of folks on this board say a PRB is fine. Most of the elk hunters here in the west I have talked to use a conical for elk so being a blackpowder newbie that is what I chose. A PRB would be a lot simpler it seems. Haveing read a lot of Elmer Keith I have a lot of faith on BIG & SLOW

You are smart to stay with the conical too many computer hunters on this site! Sounds like you are using a good load and getting very decent accuracy too. Good luck.

 

[Rat Trapper]

Using a good lube for the conical will reduce or even negate any leading issues. Alox is a good one but you can make your own with crisco and beeswax (or similar concoctions). Bore butter is not a good conical lube. Leading would be apparent when cleaning, if your dry patches are still coming out grey or black. Then use the brush. A felt wad as described will go a long way towards preventing leading.

If you are going to use a brush, make sure you have a solid "T" handle range rod or you may get the brush stuck. Use a nylon bore guide too. Brass ones can have a habit of falling down the rod and can ding the crown.

Looks like I need the brush. Thanks!

 

[nkbj]

Another newbie question:

I have been shooting lead conicals in my .54 TC Renegade. So far I have fired about 30 rounds through it and have been gettin pretty decent accuracy. My pet load so far is 100 gr of Goex FFG behind a cast 450 gr Lyman Plains bullet lubed with TC Bore Butter.

How concerned should I be about barrel leading? My cleaning procedure so far has been the hot water and soap method. Should I be scrubbing the bore with a brass brush as a part of my routine to prevent lead buildup? Should I use any type of cleaner along with scrubbing?

Are you getting any leading now that you have been able to detect? If you can find traces on a tight cleaning patch or see streaks at the muzzle then it can be on the way to becoming detrimental to accuracy.

 

[4given]

Another newbie question:

I have been shooting lead conicals in my .54 TC Renegade. So far I have fired about 30 rounds through it and have been gettin pretty decent accuracy. My pet load so far is 100 gr of Goex FFG behind a cast 450 gr Lyman Plains bullet lubed with TC Bore Butter.

How concerned should I be about barrel leading? My cleaning procedure so far has been the hot water and soap method. Should I be scrubbing the bore with a brass brush as a part of my routine to prevent lead buildup? Should I use any type of cleaner along with scrubbing?

Are you getting any leading now that you have been able to detect? If you can find traces on a tight cleaning patch or see streaks at the muzzle then it can be on the way to becoming detrimental to accuracy.

Yeah I am thinking I can see it on the patch. I am going to work on removing it tonight.

 

[4given]

Well I started in on the lead removal chore using Burchwood Casy Lead removal cloth. Man alive there was a lot of lead in there! It came ot black as sin and just kept coming & coming. I would run a couple patches of the lead removal cloth on a jag tip then follow it with dry paper towel patches. Two hours later it was still comming out black. I finaly gave up saying good enough.

 

[Mad Professor]

Run a really wet patch and let it sit a couple of hours, then use a tight fitting bronze brush, followed by more patches.

If they don't come clean repeat.

 

[stormcrow]

Similar to polishing compounds, the lead removal cloth will come out darkened ad infinitum, and would do so on an unfired barrel.

 

[4given]

Similar to polishing compounds, the lead removal cloth will come out darkened ad infinitum, and would do so on an unfired barrel.

I was wondering about that. Like JB paste or
Flitz. Good glad to hear that. Well that puppy is clean now! :grin: