barrel lugs...

[Nightwind]

The last few guns I've made were done up with staples and punched/seated in with the staple punch. would dovetailing the lugs in be a better choice?

The idea crossed my mind that I could possibly be creating a slight "bump" on the bottom of the bore using the staple method. I'm very careful to keep the drilling of the staple hole to the minimum but, is this fear warranted? or should I not use the sledge hammer when seating them? (just kidding about the sledge hammer, I use a small tapadapper for that part). But seriously, could I be ruining a perfectly good bore by using staples?

 

I wouldn't think so, Nightwind. Unless your using extremely thin barrels. :grin: I have always used staples and the old masters used staples also. I haven't seen any dovetailed lugs like the ones being sold today on old barrels. I am not saying that there wasn't any done that way, I just don't think it was common. The only barrels I have seen lugs dovetailed on are thin round trade gun barrels. Very slight filed dovetails and peened in with a round punch. It doesn't take much to keep a barrel and stock together.
Don

 

[MSW]

when the rest of the site comes back up, you should search for this thread. a fellow was compelled to cut down a nice barrel for just such a problem.

i've never had this happen to me, but all three of the rifles i've built (so far) have had paralell sided barrels with 13/15 betewwn flats and calibres under .45, so i have had plenty of metal between me and potential disaster. i've used the staple system to good effect.

my current project, however, is a Colerain 40 cal "A" profile swamped barrel with radius groove rifling. I will use dovetails on this one (at least the middle and muzzle).

Cain's Outdoor is working on a jig which will allow you to cut the dovetials into the barrel without fear of hacking it up. Last I heard, they should be out in the next month or so.
So, if you have a barrel with thick walls, you can easily get away with the easier to make staple system, but for the slender stuff, i would get the dovetails. Conventional wisdom has them being reinforced with silver solder, which I plan to try.

Good luck!

MSW

 

[MikeChapin]

I generally use staples. They are easier to set and I have never had a problem with deforming a barrel.

That being said, I am just finishing up a 32 with a 3/4" barrel. At the time I ordered, I did not have a feel for how much barrel I would have to work with so I ordered dovetailed underlugs. When I got the barrel I saw that I could have easily used the staple tabs. Oh well..

I built a rifle that used a Getz 15/16" to 3/4" tapered barrel in 50 caliber. I was worried about even dovetailing the thin end of the barrel and ended up using thick brass stock soldered to the barrel for the muzzle end lug. So far it has held up well.

 

[Zonie]

I don't know if I'm the one MSW was thinking about, but I did have a problem with my swamped barrel and stapled underlugs a few years ago.

I drilled right thru the barrel wall at the forward underlug. :cursing:

Rather than throw away a $200 barrel, I ended up cutting off the damaged area and using it for this little .54 caliber thing:

 

[mikelange]

Man, if I did that, you'd hear me howling all the way over on your side of the country. I'd invent new profanities and combinations of the old, just for the occasion.

The gun's a beauty, though -- talk about what to do when life throws you lemons!

 

I bet that hurt!! :shocked2: That's a good lookin' .54 caliber thingy, :grin: bet it handles well.
Don

 

[Nightwind]

Thanks for the replies, I'll be able to sleep better at nights.
Zonie, nice save! makes me think of a Jeager!

 

[Zonie]

"...makes me think of a Jeager! "
_____________________________
Without boreing you with the whole made up story to explain it, "it was made by a German gunsmith, new to the Colonies so he used a style he was familure with. The Pipes and sideplate are the French Type C Fusil and the lock is a Davis Type C Fusil as well.
The stock is American Curly Maple and the barrel was salvaged from one which had been damaged by firing it with the muzzle packed with snow.
The patchbox and locking method are very early designs."

Actually, if it has a weakness, it is noticably muzzle light although the Colerain barrel shoots very well.

 

[Nightwind]

Zonie, is that an inlay in the lower forearm or a barrel wedge? You must have used pins to secure the barrel to the upper forearm?

 

"...makes me think of a Jeager! "
_____________________________
Without boreing you with the whole made up story to explain it, "it was made by a German gunsmith, new to the Colonies so he used a style he was familure with. The Pipes and sideplate are the French Type C Fusil and the lock is a Davis Type C Fusil as well.
The stock is American Curly Maple and the barrel was salvaged from one which had been damaged by firing it with the muzzle packed with snow.
The patchbox and locking method are very early designs."

Actually, if it has a weakness, it is noticably muzzle light although the Colerain barrel shoots very well.

:rotf: And another good save, Zonie. Packed with snow! I love it! :rotf:
Don :hatsoff:

 

[Zonie]

Nightwind: It's a brass inlay.
Originally the gun was only going to have a "thumb inlay", but a unplanned happenstance occured. (This is another way of saying I frinkled up).
When drilling the barrel pin hole in the forearm, the drill was cocked and it broke out about 1/8 from where I wanted it to be on the far side.

Part of building guns is being able to recover from things like this. My answer, in this case, was to redrill the hole correctly and then to install the unplanned inlay on both sides.

By the way, because the underlug problem occured on a swamped barrel and I removed most of the muzzle flared area the barrel wall was rather thin.

Because it is so thin, and this is a rifle which can have high pressures, I ran a 3D stress analysis of the barrel on CATIA. (This was before I retired).
Using 12 KSI as a pressure, the model said that if I cut a .062 dovetail for the front sight, the stress would be higher than I wanted so, the front sight is Silver Soldered in place, like a shotgun would have.

That .54 caliber hole looks rather impressive in that thin barrels muzzle, I think.