Barrel Marking Questions

[johnraleksa]

I need help with understanding the markings(stamps) on the barrel of this 1860 tower gun.

 

[1950DAVE]

Can't help you with the gun but welcome to the forum.
Dave

 

[ppg1949]

JR, welcome. I think there will be someone here to help you with the proper ID. Bu in the mean time can you give us some stats, like barrel length, caliber and maybe how you came to own it. This is just a guess without any more info and suggest it is an Enfield.

 

[johnraleksa]

JR, welcome. I think there will be someone here to help you with the proper ID. Bu in the mean time can you give us some stats, like barrel length, caliber and maybe how you came to own it. This is just a guess without any more info and suggest it is an Enfield.

the barrel length is 33in.
don't know caliber. smaller than 10ga.
bought it on a online estate auction they were saying it was a 22long rifle black powder rifle

 

[mhb]

Suggest you post this on the British Militaria Forums...

mhb - MIke

 

[TFoley]

The barrel was made by Beasely Brothers, famed London jobbing makers of gun components. The gun was made after 1860 from the dated lock [VR = Victoria Regina - came to the throne in 1837] and is a percussion arm. The Tower mark on the lock shows that it was a military issue arm, but as you have not told us the calibre. We need a bit more accurate reading than 'smaller than 10 gauge' - so pro tem it must be assumed to be the usual .577 calibre of British infantry long arms of the period.

More photos are needed - how many barrel bands are there? Full-length photos are helpful here.

I note that in your profile you call it a rifle, but it is now a gun, implying that it is smooth-bored. I can't see any sights, either, which I would have expected to have seen on a rifle. What part of the world are you in?

 

[TFoley]

the barrel length is 33in.
don't know caliber. smaller than 10ga.
bought it on a online estate auction they were saying it was a 22long rifle black powder rifle

It's always heartening to read the comments of experts in their particular field of interest.

However, this is not one of them.

 

[johnraleksa]

JR, welcome. I think there will be someone here to help you with the proper ID. Bu in the mean time can you give us some stats, like barrel length, caliber and maybe how you came to own it. This is just a guess without any more info and suggest it is an Enfield.

the barrel length is 33in.
don't know caliber. smaller than 10ga.
bought it on a online estate auction they were saying it was a 22long rifle black powder rifle

The barrel was made by Beasely Brothers, famed London jobbing makers of gun components. The gun was made after 1860 from the dated lock [VR = Victoria Regina - came to the throne in 1837] and is a percussion arm. The Tower mark on the lock shows that it was a military
issue arm, but as you have not told us the calibre. We need a bit more accurate reading than 'smaller than 10 gauge' - it must be assumed to be the usual .577 calibre of British infantry long arms of the period.

It just MIGHT be Brunswick rifle, but without more pics it's impossible to say.

More photos are needed - is the barrel held on with tenons or bands, and if the latter, how many?

I note that in your profile you call it a rifle, but it is now a gun, implying that it is smooth-bored. What part of the world are you in?

my own . I have a 10ga double barrel black powder shotgun. not knowing the calibre I placed a 10ga wad over the barrel it was to big. my other rifles are 50 cal. I do have some 54 cal. bullets they were too small I did find some info that lead me to believe it is a. .577 cal. I would say it is a smooth bore for I see no rifling. I do not have any kind of gauge to measure the bore I thought maybe the markings meant something to tell of caliber . it has two bands and a screw . I think I got the rust out and cleaned it enough to test fire it when I get time . the barrel rang like a bell when I hung it by it self from a string. don't know if I will kept it after I shoot it but it is history if it was built in 1860. I just finished having a 120 + year old barn restored on my farm because it is history ,so maybe I will add this to my collection of history items

 

[TFoley]

Well, THAT's a turn-up for the books! It's a two band - correctly called a 'short rifle' - Enfield rifle in .577cal. The British never called the Enfield rifles .58cal. It shoots the 535gr Minié bullet over 2.5 drams of Fine Rifle Powder - about 68gr. It is most likely STILL a rifle, as the grooves are very shallow, and it might respond to a thorough clean INSIDE the barrel, NOT outside. It has the excellent sight fitted to these high-quality rifles. I'll be honest and admit that I've never encountered a two-band rifle in the context of the ACW, but then, since we don't know what country you live it, perhaps I'm jumping to conclusions. Your syntax suggest that English is not your first language - NOT by way of criticism, nor is mine!

So PLEASE DO NOT try and clean it up - if you live in the USA it is a distinctly rare piece, made with a barrel by one of the best of the English contractors of the day. Here in UK such a gun would be around $1500 - 1800.

 

[TFoley]

aaaaaaaaaaaaand we still don't have a clue about where you are.

 

[johnraleksa]

The barrel was made by Beasely Brothers, famed London jobbing makers of gun components. The gun was made after 1860 from the dated lock [VR = Victoria Regina - came to the throne in 1837] and is a percussion arm. The Tower mark on the lock shows that it was a military issue arm, but as you have not told us the calibre. We need a bit more accurate reading than 'smaller than 10 gauge' - so pro tem it must be assumed to be the usual .577 calibre of British infantry long arms of the period.

More photos are needed - how many barrel bands are there? Full-length photos are helpful here.

I note that in your profile you call it a rifle, but it is now a gun, implying that it is smooth-bored. I can't see any sights, either, which I would have expected to have seen on a rifle. What part of the world are you in?

 

[johnraleksa]

aaaaaaaaaaaaand we still don't have a clue about where you are.

I missed understood what you had asked. I live in the USA. Carmel, Indiana
I have a farm in Kokomo, Indiana where i do all of my shooting

 

[johnraleksa]

I missed understood what you had asked. I live in the USA. Carmel, Indiana
I have a farm in Kokomo, Indiana where i do all of my shooting

thanks again for the information you gave me. I thought I had reply earlier to you with info of where I lived.
please reply that you got this

 

[johnraleksa]

The barrel was made by Beasely Brothers, famed London jobbing makers of gun components. The gun was made after 1860 from the dated lock [VR = Victoria Regina - came to the throne in 1837] and is a percussion arm. The Tower mark on the lock shows that it was a military issue arm, but as you have not told us the calibre. We need a bit more accurate reading than 'smaller than 10 gauge' - so pro tem it must be assumed to be the usual .577 calibre of British infantry long arms of the period.

More photos are needed - how many barrel bands are there? Full-length photos are helpful here.

I note that in your profile you call it a rifle, but it is now a gun, implying that it is smooth-bored. I can't see any sights, either, which I would have expected to have seen on a rifle. What part of the world are you in?

USA. Carmel, Indiana

 

[johnraleksa]

aaaaaaaaaaaaand we still don't have a clue about where you are.

U.S.A. Indiana

 

[johnraleksa]

thanks for all the information you people gave me on this rifle, very helpful. not sure what I will do with it now . no I won't try to clean it, only tried to get some rust out of the barrel and put oil down the barrel to help stop more rust.the furniture looks to me like someone else put a clear coat varnish on it with out doing anything else. love to shot it but won't now.
thanks again

 

[johnraleksa]

in case you didn't my other post I live in the USA, Indiana

 

[GREENSWLDE]

Hi John, As Tom says "It's what we call a Two Band". Is the Bayonet Lugg on the barrel or on the Barrel Band? It's not too clear on your photo. If the bore cleans up well and still has it's .577 rifling it should shoot like a Dream and could be a match winner of pretty high value. Plenty of help with Bullets and Bullet moulds here in UK from MLAGB members as it's our GO TO Rifle for target shooting at Club and National level.. OLD DOG..

 

[johnraleksa]

thanks for your reply. the bayonet lugg is on the barrel band.

 

[OLUT]

Well, THAT's a turn-up for the books! It's a two band - correctly called a 'short rifle' - Enfield rifle in .577cal. The British never called the Enfield rifles .58cal. It shoots the 535gr Minié bullet over 2.5 drams of Fine Rifle Powder - about 68gr. It is most likely STILL a rifle, as the grooves are very shallow, and it might respond to a thorough clean INSIDE the barrel, NOT outside. It has the excellent sight fitted to these high-quality rifles. I'll be honest and admit that I've never encountered a two-band rifle in the context of the ACW, but then, since we don't know what country you live it, perhaps I'm jumping to conclusions. Your syntax suggest that English is not your first language - NOT by way of criticism, nor is mine!

So PLEASE DO NOT try and clean it up - if you live in the USA it is a distinctly rare piece, made with a barrel by one of the best of the English contractors of the day. Here in UK such a gun would be around $1500 - 1800.

The British contributors have nailed this gun down for you. Although both the 3-banded and 2-banded versions were heavily imported into both the North and South in our Civil War, they were "commercially made". You would then see British commercial proof marks on the barrel. Just GOOGLE search Pattern 1853 Enfield Rifle for lots more info. I have the commercial (Greener) two banded version with the bayonet lug on the barrel (P58 model?) and used to fire it frequently with commercial ".58 Minie balls" and 70 grains od black powder.