barrel strength

[wrichi]

Dear sir
I red several posts in many muzzle loading forums, stating that Indian made barrels are dangerous. But in India a whole lot of people are using muzzle loader shotguns. strangely I never heard a single case of barrel bursting or breach plug failure. I have seen some 12 bore imported good quality cartridge guns with bursted barrels because of using longer shot shells in shorter chambered guns. (Lack of knowledge).Our people loading their guns with more powder, a relatively loose wadding and shots or 5,6 LG balls.some shotguns perform evenly with 12 bore cartridge guns. I know a person using a muzzle loading shotgun with broken barrel welded together.he used it to hunt deer, boars, jungle fowls and what ever he see.so what is saving here our guns and lives.(powder quality or loose wadding)

 

[Rifleman1776]

But in India a whole lot of people are using muzzle loader shotguns. strangely I never heard a single case of barrel bursting or breach plug failure.

There is a lot that we never hear about from third world countries. From India we do hear about the child slave labor, diseases, occasional man eating tiger and elephant rampage through villages.

 

[coloradoclyde]

Yep... but you also don't hear about their Nuclear program, Space station or Mission to Mars.

Unless you do your own research. :grin:

P.S. India is also one of the largest suppliers of pharmaceuticals to the United States....
But we focus on their gun quality... :youcrazy:

 

[wrichi]

Dear sir
I am not arguing that our guns are strong. Just want to know ,is our life less powder and loads saving us in shooting these guns'. That's all.I am new to muzzle loading.I have a Wesley Richards db and a Harrington and Richardson single, both are 12 bores.we have 6 shotguns and a German made revolver in our family; all are from England and America. We love them a lot.I know, any Indian gun never come close to them. I don't know our grade , yes sir we have all those problems you have stated. but where on earth every thing is perfect?
Sorry if I am wrong.
Thanks sir.

 

[wrichi]

Dear sir
Child slave labour is almost not in practice now.we are healthy as any one, no India specific diseases here.yes elephants, leopards, bears invading villages.but we are not permitted to shoot them.we love them too.our education is good now. That's why Indian engineers, doctors, software engineers are everywhere.by the way we count goodness of our nibhour over his shortcomings.
Thank you sir.

 

[BlancoBoy]

I don't have any India made replica gun, but when I inquired gun seller Frankonia about having a India made Enfield as a cheap alternative to European ones they said they can't recommend it for shooting it's more for decorative purposes.

BTW Where people in India get their black powder? In Europe it's becoming scarce.

 

[tenngun]

I had a cheap import from the 70s with a two piece barrel...not made in india. I never found any problemwith it although my gut tells me it was not safe to shoot. Val Farogot of navy arms and Ted Kirkland of Dixie gun works tried to blow barrels with god-afawl charges and kirkland gun didnt blow. forogots gun only went when the ball was not driven home. Looking at some old guns with paper thin barrels it makes me wonder if a barrel taken care of loaded right with out an overcharge is as safe as any other.
From reading peoples complaints about Indian made guns it seams the hardness of the frizzen, the lock geomerety, the over polished metal finish and the tendency to leave too much wood on the stock are the biggest complaints. We have a lot of boys on this forum that havesome real good looking indianguns, and shoot well with them.

 

[wrichi]

Dear sir
Every thing related to fire arms is under government control in India. Guns, gun powder and cartridges are supplied to the civilians according to the licence, through the licensed gun shops.gun powder, and cartridges supplied only as much as stated in the license.quantity varying 2,3,4 kilograms a year,250 grams to 500 grams at a time.cartridges,25 to 200 a year,25 to 50 at a time.some people use another's license to buy gun powder or cartridges.but they are available easily .
Thank you sir

 

[Grandpa Ron]

I am not so sure the argument against India made gun is that the barrels explode, so much as the fit and quality of workmanship is so poor.

Several who own India imports shoot them all the time, usually after some hand tweaking.

I would be interest to know if these guns have government proof marks.

Most of us would cringe if we saw the guns that are being used in third world countries. But they seem to feed their families.

 

[Billnpatti]

It is true that they do all of that. The question is just how well they do it, how safely they do it and with what consideration for the environmental impact. :idunno: I have never dealt with any of the examples that you cite but I have seen the guns that come from these countries. I can tell you that the quality of their guns is not up to the quality of American made guns, Spanish made guns nor Italian made guns. So, based solely on these few things, I don't think I would want to ride in one of their space crafts nor work in, or live near, one of their atomic processing and manufacturing plants. Would you? But, if one of these third world guns fits your needs and you are satisfied with the quality.....well, it's your money.

 

[wrichi]

Dear sir
Feeding our family with the help of gun? This one sentence just land us in jail. :wink:
Thanks

 

[wrichi]

Dear sir
Yes they are not up to the quality of British, German or USA made guns,not even comparable.that is why foreign made used guns fetch minimum 4 to 5 times the amount of a new gun produced here.some Britain made, good maintained guns get 50 times more money than a new local.muzzle loaders are a different story.they are just a tool for a very poor farmer.no one enjoy them, they prefer that just because can't afford a 12 bore cartridge shotgun.it may take another 100 years to take them for sports, or never.quality and reliability of our products definitely improve once curruption is brought under control, things change dramatically. Our law enforcement is getting stricter and we are hopeful.
Thank you sir.

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

It is true that they do all of that. The question is just how well they do it, how safely they do it and with what consideration for the environmental impact. :idunno: I have never dealt with any of the examples that you cite but I have seen the guns that come from these countries. I can tell you that the quality of their guns is not up to the quality of American made guns, Spanish made guns nor Italian made guns. So, based solely on these few things, I don't think I would want to ride in one of their space crafts nor work in, or live near, one of their atomic processing and manufacturing plants. Would you? But, if one of these third world guns fits your needs and you are satisfied with the quality.....well, it's your money.

As far as fit and finish, keep in mind that the Indian makers are providing their customers with exactly what the customer wants - cheap. The customer is the company that sells to the buyers here and they are the ones that specify what the maker supplies.

India has gunmakers that are capable of supplying good, safe guns, at least as good as any other company can. As a matter of fact, the actual working, Indian-made firearms supplied to customers in India are required to be proofed at the Indian government proof house modeled on the British proof house in Birmingham and operating to the same high standards. The guns they export are, under Indian law, imitation guns and are not expected to be fired though, apparently, many do get used, especially in this country. For more information read Arms Laws in India at:
http://www.abhijeetsingh.com/arms/india/laws/

As far as living next door to a nuclear power plant? I wouldn't want to live anywhere near to one, not in India or in the United Sates for that matter. Nor would I want to ride into space under anyone's space program. To each his own. But an Indian government proofed Indian firearm? While it may not be as finely made as a British gun, I have every confidence that it would be just as safe. I do wonder about the imitation guns though.... So should we all.

 

[Grandpa Ron]

Before we go ragging on the cheap Spanish and Italian imports, remember they are building to a price target.

Check out the guns adds in the Double Gun Journal if you have deep pockets.

A whole different breed of cats.

 

[eaglesnester]

I have just ordered and proofed a Brown Bess in 75 caliber from Loyalist Arms in Canada. My fire lock was not proofed when it arrived. Loyalist Arms included instructions for proofing which I followed. This proofing entailed removing the barrel from the stock, loading the musket up with 150 grains of powder and strapping it down for firing and using a canon fuse in the touch hole. The barrel was removed from the stock and was measured at the breach and 6 other places along the barrel with a vernier caliper before and after firing. The two measurements were compared. No measurements exceeded .003 thou. It was made in Jaipur India. I paid 795 CDN for this musket. It will hit a 10 inch gong with 100 grains of powder 2f every time at 65 meters. The gun is a period accurate 1st Long Land Pattern Brown Bess transitional 1723. The stock is made from Rose Wood and is nice. The fit and finish is good, at least as good as muskets that were produced by gun makers during that period.I could not expect more for my money. Upon arrival I had our local gun smith install a White Lightning touch hole liner, lighten trigger pull from 15.5 lbs to 4.5lbs, the gun is a good sparker and goes boom every time with no click bang, just bang if I do my part when loading. One note, the lock is made from relatively soft metal according to my gun smith. The frizzen seems to be ok. As for the safety of the barrel, she ante blowed up yet.

Cheers & Tighter Groups: Eaglesnster
Are U sure U know how to skin grizz, pilgrim?

 

[Rifleman1776]

Dear sir
Every thing related to fire arms is under government control in India. Guns, gun powder and cartridges are supplied to the civilians according to the licence, through the licensed gun shops.gun powder, and cartridges supplied only as much as stated in the license.quantity varying 2,3,4 kilograms a year,250 grams to 500 grams at a time.cartridges,25 to 200 a year,25 to 50 at a time.some people use another's license to buy gun powder or cartridges.but they are available easily .
Thank you sir

I have said in a PM that I do not wish to speak unkindly of any country or it's people. But facts speak for themselves.
As to the safety measures you mention, does Indian law exempt non-firing items that look like antique style guns from such safety and proof testing? If so, those of us who are critics of India made muzzle loaders are simply coming down on the side of safety.

 

[wrichi]

Dear sir
As you said, facts speaks for themselves. I think they are exporting them as "imitation" guns.in the eyes of law they are not real guns, so there is no proof tests .sir, you have the choice in your own hand to shoot it or hang it on the wall. If you fear to shoot them, why can't you stop importing them?.do one favour sir ,just stop their import and put some quality standards before them.teach them how to build a gun. Lot of us would be thankful to you.
Thank you sir

 

[Rifleman1776]

why can't you stop importing them

Power to do that is not in my hands.

 

[Zonie]

Dear sir
As you said, facts speaks for themselves. I think they are exporting them as "imitation" guns.in the eyes of law they are not real guns, so there is no proof tests .sir, you have the choice in your own hand to shoot it or hang it on the wall. If you fear to shoot them, why can't you stop importing them?.do one favour sir ,just stop their import and put some quality standards before them.teach them how to build a gun. Lot of us would be thankful to you.
Thank you sir

For the most part, citizens in the United States dislike the idea of the Government taking away their right to buy things.
We feel that the decision to buy or not to buy products should be left to the individual.

This is especially true with firearms.

We cherish our right to own firearms as is guaranteed by the Second Amendment to our Constitution.
We have seen far too many Governments in other Countries where the the right to import and buy firearms has been stopped by those Governments "to protect the people".

As for the safety of products imported into the United States, the possibility of lawsuits and the loss of a good reputation for a company who imports defective products has worked in the past to stop them.

Add to this the power of the Internet and the ability of citizens to report dangerous products to others and the need for Governmental intervention becomes even less beneficial.

In the case of firearms made in India, if they were proven to be defective or dangerous, rest assured we would all know of it and their sales would diminish to a point that attempting to import them would not be worth the effort.

At least, that's the way I see it.

 

[Knapper51]

:thumbsup: