Barrel Twist Rate

[Yewman60]

Hi, I'm new to the forum.
I just got a used replica in great condition Flint Lock .45 Cal Muzzleloader made in Spain, I checked the twist rate and is 1:12. Barrel length is 33 1/2 inches long.
Has anyone come across such twist rate in a muzzleloader?

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Yes but not in a traditional rifle from Spain...only in a modern rifle meant to be legal in muzzleloading seasons for deer....

Are you sure it's that tight a twist?

LD

 

[Will Bison]

That sure seems like a fast twist considering a .45-70 has a 1-18 or slower twist. Shoot it and see what happens.

 

[Yewman60]

Yes, I am 100% sure is 1:12,(1:12 throughout the length of the barrel). I have done some research and have spoken to many gunsmiths about this twist rate and no one knows why it was made this way.
I was planning to start with 50 grains of ffg black powder and a .45 Cal Great Plains 285 GR HB-HP sabot.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Seems very odd. How old is your "used" rifle? Back when the ml game was beginning rifles from Spain often were pure El Junkos. I had one with a two piece barrel with twists going in opposite directions. That was a lot of fun to shoot. :td:
I'm guessing it might have been a factory mistake.
hotoSmile:

 

[Yewman60]

I am trying to locate the original owner, I was told it was made in the 70's or 80's. There is no SN or tool markings on barrel, it just says made in Spain on the barrel.

 

[Rifleman1776]

I am trying to locate the original owner, I was told it was made in the 70's or 80's. There is no SN or tool markings on barrel, it just says made in Spain on the barrel.

Smells like trouble from here. :shocked2:
IMHO, wall hanger only.

 

[Dphar]

This is something like one would find in a 458 magnum class modern firearm. This is too fast for even a 45 cal lead bullet. Since 1:18 is good for bullets to 600 gr of so.
They probably had some surplus blanks laying around for modern HV 45 cals and just profiled them for the ML and used them cause they got them cheap. How deep are the grooves? If they are less than .006 its pretty good bet they are BL barrels. At .006" grooves they might be BL barrels that were rifled too deep and thus used for MLs. Given their point of origin anything is possible. They were making these to sell cheap. Shooting was not important or the maker did not know any better or even care.

Dan

 

[Dphar]

I am trying to locate the original owner, I was told it was made in the 70's or 80's. There is no SN or tool markings on barrel, it just says made in Spain on the barrel.

I would not shoot this thing, period.
I have too much regard for my head.
If its made in Spain it should have proof marks.

Dan

 

[Yewman60]

They are less tan six thousands, with dial caliper.
.450-.445=.005"

 

[Billnpatti]

That is WAY too fast of a twist rate for any kind of muzzleloader. I would not shoot it. :shake: If the guy from whom you got it will take it back, that would be your best bet. If you are stuck with it, I am sorry to say, but you just have a wall hanger on your hands.

 

[Rifleman1776]

They are less tan six thousands, with dial caliper.
.450-.445=.005"

Yeppers, bad factory misteak.
Don't shoot, plug barrel, hang on wall or make into a lamp stand.

 

[Flash Pan Dan]

How did you measure the twist rate? What was you procedure?

 

[Loyalist Dave]

They probably had some surplus blanks laying around for modern HV 45 cals and just profiled them for the ML and used them cause they got them cheap.

That's a pretty good theory, though the steel would be much higher quality than typical of the ML barrels steel from Spain at that time.

I wondered if maybe the manufacturer was making pistol barrels by making a long, fast twist, piece of stock, then cutting them into shorter pieces and cutting the breech, but the fastest twist ML pistols that I know of are Pedersoli and they are like 1:15 and 1:18....I wonder if back then they could've been faster???

LD

 

[Yewman60]

I have done it many different ways. One of them was with a cleaning rod, a .45 cal jag and cleaning patch. Marked rod with tape and measure full rotation. The other way was with a popcicle stick that fitted snug in groves, same result. I have used same method with my other rifles and it works.

 

[Yewman60]

The barrel is 7/8" wide and it is a 6 grooves.
The breech plug goes in 1/2".

 

[russecv58]

Yes, I have one with a fast twist like that. My dad built it from a kit way back in the early 70's. Shoots just fine with patched ball, or 285 grain buffalo bullets. :thumbsup:

 

[Yewman60]

Have you checked the twist rate?

 

[russecv58]

I've checked it with a cleaning rod and tight jag/patch. the rod will make 2 1/2 turns going from the muzzle to the breech. since the barrel is 33 1/2" I figure it to be somewhere around 1-13" twist rate.

 

[Yewman60]

Is it a .45 Cal Flintlock? Were did he get it? Does it have a SN, makers proof, owners manual, etc.... Sorry for asking so many questions, I'm just trying to find out about mine. Thanks....