Barrels
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Redleg130th
32 Cal.
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I did quite a bit of research on this and found that making a rifle barrel is quite an expensive undertaking. The tools and machines can run several thousand dollars, not to mention big. I expect the skills do do it could be learned, but the equipment is the limiting factor.
I had idea of building a musket completely from scratch and discovered this is why it really is not a practical option.
The other parts besides the barrel are doable without industrial equipment, but they would take lots of practice to do correctly I think.
I think buying a lock kit and barrel is the most efficient since these parts take some doing to get done right. The rest can be made from scratch with woodworking and brasscasting/working skills and tools.
Old barrels were forged from a flat sheet of wrought iron then reamed. Although to duplicate this may be possible with non-industrial equipment, I assume you want something that can be shot.
Getz, Rice, and Colerain are barrelmakers that get mentioned here alot. Getz's barrels have been in several movies too.
I had idea of building a musket completely from scratch and discovered this is why it really is not a practical option.
The other parts besides the barrel are doable without industrial equipment, but they would take lots of practice to do correctly I think.
I think buying a lock kit and barrel is the most efficient since these parts take some doing to get done right. The rest can be made from scratch with woodworking and brasscasting/working skills and tools.
Old barrels were forged from a flat sheet of wrought iron then reamed. Although to duplicate this may be possible with non-industrial equipment, I assume you want something that can be shot.
Getz, Rice, and Colerain are barrelmakers that get mentioned here alot. Getz's barrels have been in several movies too.
I know six men that can build a rifle from scratch. That covers everything from barrel and lock to brass, screws, pins, and inlays. Of the six, two were master of the gunshop at Williamsburg, one is the son of one or the former masters, one the present master, and one just plain good.
I knew someone once that built a long rifle from scratch. He did everything including carving out his own rifling tools. He was quite an impressive man and one of his last undertakings was to build a Fokker Eindecker. Unfortunately, he has since passed. I have no idea what became of his belongings...
John Donelson built a rifle with every part completely from scratch (some he makes with wood cut from his own land), including forging up the iron barrel from a skelp. He'll make you a rifle like it for $12,995! Obviously a big job.
I think it's Foxfire Book #5 that shows a forged iron Tennessee rifle being created by hand. (Must be good - that's the only one missing from our local library.)
I think it's Foxfire Book #5 that shows a forged iron Tennessee rifle being created by hand. (Must be good - that's the only one missing from our local library.)
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The NMLRA holds semanars on building the needed machinery for cutting rifling, using normal shop tools, at Friendship every year during the spring or fall shoots.
You can use seamless tube stock for the blank. Most of the barrel builders do too.
But you guys don't believe in the MNLRA, what a pitty! They have just what you are looking for.
I have been forge welding for nearly 25 years and I would not trust a barrel I welded to contain a heavy charge. That and the welding and finish work would take over a week. At the end I would not have steel of guarenteed quality after all of the heating and quenching. For $200 I can buy a barrel from Rice, Cholrain, Getz and have someone to gripe at when it will not hit anything! If I work for those five days I will have change left over to buy a lock and stock.
I know all about the pride thing, but the first componants made in mass and purchased in mass by the old time builders were factory made barrels. That was in the golden age too. Many of those barrels signed on the top flat were made in the Lancaster factories, not by the gunbuilder.
You can use seamless tube stock for the blank. Most of the barrel builders do too.
But you guys don't believe in the MNLRA, what a pitty! They have just what you are looking for.
I have been forge welding for nearly 25 years and I would not trust a barrel I welded to contain a heavy charge. That and the welding and finish work would take over a week. At the end I would not have steel of guarenteed quality after all of the heating and quenching. For $200 I can buy a barrel from Rice, Cholrain, Getz and have someone to gripe at when it will not hit anything! If I work for those five days I will have change left over to buy a lock and stock.
I know all about the pride thing, but the first componants made in mass and purchased in mass by the old time builders were factory made barrels. That was in the golden age too. Many of those barrels signed on the top flat were made in the Lancaster factories, not by the gunbuilder.
The reason I asked this question is to find out where I could get ahold of some barrel blanks that didn't cost me the same as a barrel that has been rifled from the factory. I enjoy the challenge of rifling my own barrel and was just asking if anybody else was and if so, where they got their blanks from, that's all. Thanks for the thoughts guys.
---Blahman --- you might want to check out this book at Track --- I can relate to your interest, it sound interesting-
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/categories...Num=BOOK-HRMLBH
Hand Rifling a Muzzle Loading Barrel at Home
by Mark Wagner
:thumbsup:
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/categories...Num=BOOK-HRMLBH
Hand Rifling a Muzzle Loading Barrel at Home
by Mark Wagner
:thumbsup:
Blahman,
I have never rifled a barrel made by another maker but I have rifled, bored, and hand forged barrels that my father and I have forge welded from a wrought iron skelp. We have been doing the barrel welding demonstration at the Dixon
I have never rifled a barrel made by another maker but I have rifled, bored, and hand forged barrels that my father and I have forge welded from a wrought iron skelp. We have been doing the barrel welding demonstration at the Dixon
Aha!!! that's what I mean. At the moment I'm involved with some fella's and what we do is rifle barrels. We get them as a blank...by that I mean they are manufactured by others and we put the rifling into them. I wonder, Mr. Laubach (hope I don't offend you by being to formal) how do those barrels shoot? What twist are you rifling them? What kind of machine are you using? What do your cutters look like, how are they made,ect., ect., ect. This group of fella's we have (at last count) 15 rifling machines in our possesion. Some are new, some are old, some work some don't. Our interest is in making those machines work. If you allow your mind to think about it, in every county of every state there were gunmakers who purchased barrels (unrifled) and rifled them to customer specs. As cartridge guns became popular those old machines were tossed aside. I just wonder how many are tucked away in an old barn somewhere waiting to be discovered.
Redleg130th
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That is an awsome set of photos! That certinly would be an interesting thing to watch.
Blahman,
The few barrels I have rifled shot great. The twist rates vary, I think we did ours 1:70. The machine is a copy of an original. Basically pulling the cutter from breech to muzzle. The cutters are filed out of carbon steel, 1095, 1080 or something similar. I will see if I can find some pictures over the weekend of the machine and some cutters.
Hey Wayne,
Feel free to come on up to Dixon
The few barrels I have rifled shot great. The twist rates vary, I think we did ours 1:70. The machine is a copy of an original. Basically pulling the cutter from breech to muzzle. The cutters are filed out of carbon steel, 1095, 1080 or something similar. I will see if I can find some pictures over the weekend of the machine and some cutters.
Hey Wayne,
Feel free to come on up to Dixon
I have a machine that does a twist of 1:66 then gains to 1:60. There have been 6 barrels done so far, two made into guns. They shoot good. The stock came from Ed Rayl. The older barrels were 12L14 steel, the others were 4150. The 4150 is hard stuff and hard to rifle, we notice it tears and it is difficult to use a scrape cutter. A hook cutter works better, but on of the guys made a cutter that is based on the teory of a hacksaw blade, only wider. His cutter was long and had many teeth. His barrel (4150) came out real good, but he used a different machine. Our cutters are made from tool steel or Saco. I can't make a cutter yet, but I'll start soon...I think I'll use old files as a base.
Metalshaper
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Blahman and all,
I've done just a tiny bit of rifling. When I was doing my research, I was given some copies of articles that were in some of the older Muzzleblast and other magazines. The one article talked about making a rifling head and using hacksaw blades as the cutters. I was helping my friend try it, so I built a rifler head that utilized a piece from and industrial cut-off bandsaw.
For this cutter I left 5 teeth. < although it was probably long enought to have 10 > The head was made of hard delrin rod and I used fine pitch setscrews underneath, to feed the cutter upwards. We were using a Wagner style rifling bench( twisted square rod on guides ) and for the test piece, we used a section of 4130 chromoly aircraft tubing.
Once we adjusted the teeth to just start taking a cut, we brushed the head with black thread cutting oil and proceeded to pull the first pass. I was amazed at how easily it took the first cut and the swarf came out in clean lil'curls. with this arrangement I couldn't lower the cutter on the return stroke, but even at that.. the teeth didn't seem to dull too quickly being passed back and forth.
We developed the rythem of pulling back and forth, three times in each groove, at each adjustment. Making sure we brushed on cutting oil, before each stroke. Now even using a machine, thats function needed a lil' tweaking. We could have had a 7 groove barrel rilfed, in about a hour, maybe an hour and a half.
My buddy got excited to take a peek and after a lil' more than a half hours work.. he couldn't be contained
and we pulled the tubing out of its holders. Once we swabbed the bore clear of chips and oil.. we had a rifled section of tubing, who's grooves were approvimately .005 deep.
I din't think that was too bad?? And the grooves and lands looked clean and sharp!
Also previously we had tried a hook or scraper style rifling head. this thing was a major pain to try and get through the bore. The grooves were not nearly as clean as when we used the section of hacksaw blade..
I'm by no means an expert, :results:, these are just what we tried and what I observed for our attempts.. Take it for what that's worth??
Respect Always
Metalshaper
I've done just a tiny bit of rifling. When I was doing my research, I was given some copies of articles that were in some of the older Muzzleblast and other magazines. The one article talked about making a rifling head and using hacksaw blades as the cutters. I was helping my friend try it, so I built a rifler head that utilized a piece from and industrial cut-off bandsaw.
For this cutter I left 5 teeth. < although it was probably long enought to have 10 > The head was made of hard delrin rod and I used fine pitch setscrews underneath, to feed the cutter upwards. We were using a Wagner style rifling bench( twisted square rod on guides ) and for the test piece, we used a section of 4130 chromoly aircraft tubing.
Once we adjusted the teeth to just start taking a cut, we brushed the head with black thread cutting oil and proceeded to pull the first pass. I was amazed at how easily it took the first cut and the swarf came out in clean lil'curls. with this arrangement I couldn't lower the cutter on the return stroke, but even at that.. the teeth didn't seem to dull too quickly being passed back and forth.
We developed the rythem of pulling back and forth, three times in each groove, at each adjustment. Making sure we brushed on cutting oil, before each stroke. Now even using a machine, thats function needed a lil' tweaking. We could have had a 7 groove barrel rilfed, in about a hour, maybe an hour and a half.
My buddy got excited to take a peek and after a lil' more than a half hours work.. he couldn't be contained
and we pulled the tubing out of its holders. Once we swabbed the bore clear of chips and oil.. we had a rifled section of tubing, who's grooves were approvimately .005 deep.I din't think that was too bad?? And the grooves and lands looked clean and sharp!
Also previously we had tried a hook or scraper style rifling head. this thing was a major pain to try and get through the bore. The grooves were not nearly as clean as when we used the section of hacksaw blade..
I'm by no means an expert, :results:, these are just what we tried and what I observed for our attempts.. Take it for what that's worth??
Respect Always
Metalshaper
Metealshaper,
The last barrel I did, I ran into a problem..it was a 4150 barrel. The cutter would get very dull, very quickly. It wasn't the hook type that I was accustomed to. I couldn't keep the damn thing sharp and it was tearing (not cutting) the grooves. I did finish it, but I was dissatisfied with the results (I've done better). My friend suggested to lap the barrel. I did, and it shoots pretty damn good. If I could ever figure out how to take some pics and post them I will. The nice thing about the hook cutter (at least mine) is it can be sharpened very quickly and very easily. I also take a pic of the machine I have. I guess it is easier to just buy a ready made barrel, but the satisfaction of doing your own is tremendous.
The last barrel I did, I ran into a problem..it was a 4150 barrel. The cutter would get very dull, very quickly. It wasn't the hook type that I was accustomed to. I couldn't keep the damn thing sharp and it was tearing (not cutting) the grooves. I did finish it, but I was dissatisfied with the results (I've done better). My friend suggested to lap the barrel. I did, and it shoots pretty damn good. If I could ever figure out how to take some pics and post them I will. The nice thing about the hook cutter (at least mine) is it can be sharpened very quickly and very easily. I also take a pic of the machine I have. I guess it is easier to just buy a ready made barrel, but the satisfaction of doing your own is tremendous.
