Barry Lyndon movie fakery.

[springfield art]

Actors don't always have the authority to "police" details of prop use; Klink's real name, Klemperer, wasn't he the son or father of a famous orchestra director, Werner Klemperor? You could never make that 'Hogan' TV show nowadays! The Nazi imagery, even as buffoons, would get the studio picketed!

 

[winter1857]

It’s a long slow movie, that is really an enjoyable few hours. It was a real stab at historic correctness in a movie for the time.
Guns less then correct, but John Wayne had a ‘peacemaker’ colt and a Winchester in Commancheros set in the Texas Republic sometime before 1846

I was going to bring up The Comancheros as well. It's a great, fun movie but you have to ignore a lot of stuff in addition to the guns. I've driven from Louisiana to Austin/San Antonio and I don't remember any slick rock deserts on the way. Things have changed since Texas was a Republic, I suppose.

 

[winter1857]

4-5 of Hogan's Heros lineup were Jewish actors portraying Germans. It seems like that show went out of their way to make the Germans look like buffoons.

Robert Clary (Labeau) was a survivor of Buchenwald and lost his family in Auschwitz. It's crazy.

 

[Kyle Kalasnik]

Those kind of mistakes are kind of common in “ historical” movies. Reminds me of a scene in “Revolution” where the Americans are behind breasrworks awaiting the British advance. One close- up of a farmer with a percussion musket.
I try to overlook these and just enjoy the film, but yeah, sometimes it’s hard to
Barry Lynden was a great movie.

I watched Revolution a few months ago, and noticed the percussion musket too!

 

[fireman1]

Look at all the old west movies where the US Cavalry soldiers are carrying lever action Winchesters. Lever actions were never issued to the US Cavalry. Springfield trapdoor carbines only. I always get a kick out of the guys wearing a bandoleer of 30.06, 8mm Mauser, or some such long rifle round and they are carrying pistol caliber lever action saddle ring carbines. Bigger rounds look cooler in a bandoleer. Never ever see anyone reloading from one of the bandoleers. Tough to get an 8mm Mauser round to fit in a 44-40 chambered rifle.

By the time the Spaghetti Westerns came into popularity they were using .45 Colt caliber lever guns which the Italians made in huge numbers. Made it easy for the prop guys to supply blanks when the pistols and rifles were using the same blank ammunition.

Point of order. US Cavalry troops were issued Spencer carbines. A lever action tube feed carbine. True, not a Winchester but a lever gun.

 

[Flintlock Whiskey]

Actors don't always have the authority to "police" details of prop use; Klink's real name, Klemperer, wasn't he the son or father of a famous orchestra director, Werner Klemperor? You could never make that 'Hogan' TV show nowadays! The Nazi imagery, even as buffoons, would get the studio picketed!

True, which shows just how far down the tubes society has gone. No one can dare be happy and/or laugh anymore.

 

[Hawk54]

Point of order. US Cavalry troops were issued Spencer carbines. A lever action tube feed carbine. True, not a Winchester but a lever gun.

You know what I meant. I was referring to Winchester type lever actions used in movies with post Civil War cavalry of the Custer era and there were none of those after the 1873 45-70 carbine was adopted for use. The only Winchester type lever rifle was the Henry model 1860 rifles which were also issued during the Civil War. I do not know what types of units received the Henry rifles or how many to each. The majority of CW cavalry were not issued Spencers. They were issued with single shot Sharps and Burnside carbines. One CW cavalry unit commander bought better repeating rifles out of his own pocket for his men. Technically single shot Sharps and Burnsides were a lever guns. These were mostly replaced by 1875 with the 45-70 trapdoors.

 

[Coinneach]

Point of order. US Cavalry troops were issued Spencer carbines. A lever action tube feed carbine. True, not a Winchester but a lever gun.

Only a restricted number to a few regiments during the ACW, but they were withdrawn after the War and the Trapdoor Springfields were standard issue throughout when they became available.

 

[fireman1]

Only a restricted number to a few regiments during the ACW, but they were withdrawn after the War and the Trapdoor Springfields were standard issue throughout when they became available.

Almost 100,000 Spencer carbines were built during teh ACW. Mike Venturino says they were the most prevalent carbine in the Cavalry. I have also read it was #3.

The 1873 Trapdoor did not start reaching troops in the field until 1874. The Spencer was still widely used until then.

The statement was that the Cavalry NEVER used lever actions. I was pointing out that in fact they did use them.

 

[Coinneach]

Almost 100,000 Spencer carbines were built during teh ACW. Mike Venturino says they were the most prevalent carbine in the Cavalry. I have also read it was #3.

The 1873 Trapdoor did not start reaching troops in the field until 1874. The Spencer was still widely used until then.

The statement was that the Cavalry NEVER used lever actions. I was pointing out that in fact they did use them.

No argument ref "Cavalry NEVER used lever actions", I'm with you ref the Spencers, but from everything I've read they werent as common during the ACW as some claim, both as Rifles and Carbines.
They were the exception rather than wholesale issue across the Union Armies from mid 1863 through to end of hostilities in 1865.

Heres a couple of good sources.

As late as July 1863 "Only two units of the Army of the Potomac were armed with Spencer Repeating Rifles at Gettysburg. In February 1863, Governor Austin Blair of Michigan purchased 680 Spencer Repeating Rifles (not carbines) with state funds which were then issued to Colonel Russell Alger’s 5th Michigan Cavalry, which during the battle was in Brigadier General George A. Custer’s brigade...... Ordnance records of the 5th and 6th Regiments Michigan Cavalry, submitted a month after the Battle of Gettysburg, indicate these two regiments carried a total of 572 Spencer Repeating Rifles and 10,000 rounds of ammunition to the field. The men of these regiments made good use of their Spencers in the July 3 cavalry battle east of Gettysburg, but this was the only place on the Gettysburg battlefield that the Spencer saw action except for those rare cases of soldiers who had privately purchased the weapon."

https://npsgnmp.wordpress.com/2011/09/01/weapons-at-gettysburg-the-spencer-repeating-rifle/
https://www.americanrifleman.org/content/excels-all-others-the-spencer-carbine/
BTW I'm a great admirer of the Spencer, and respect it as being far ahead of its time so much so I waited for decades until a reproduction came out. Finally managing to buy a Chiappa "Spencer" carbine in .45 LC here in Australia a few years ago. They're rare over here albeit with the historically wrong calibre; but hey its a Spencer.

 

[TDM]

I’ll just stick to watching my collection of old Humphrey Bogart and Errol Flynn movies. Oh and Jimmy Stuart too.

 

[Hawk54]

I used to be into metal detecting in a big way. A couple that I knew who were avid metal detector nuts like me (he was a Whites metal detector dealer) were contacted by a family who had an older family member who passed away that had lived on a farm in western Minnesota. They said he was a product of the great depression and didn't trust banks so they thought he had buried valuables. They offered my friends 10% of anything they found. They hunted the property for two days. They found several fruit jars buried outside that contained cash, silver, and gold coins. The total value was around $100,000. They got $10,000 for their work. I could tell you more stories. There is a lot of stuff out there that people don't even know is there.

 

[Coinneach]

Never cared for O'Neal! Pretty-boy only.

Ditto

 

[Eutycus]

Wasn't the 17th Indiana (also known as Wilder's Lightning Brigade or the Hatchet Brigade) equipped with Spencers?

 

[Dark Angel]

Look at all the old west movies where the US Cavalry soldiers are carrying lever action Winchesters. Lever actions Winchesters were never issued to the Custer Little Bighorn era US Cavalry. Springfield trapdoor carbines only. I always get a kick out of the guys wearing a bandoleer of 30.06, 8mm Mauser, or some such long rifle round and they are carrying pistol caliber lever action saddle ring carbines. Bigger rounds look cooler in a bandoleer. Never ever see anyone reloading from one of the bandoleers. Tough to get an 8mm Mauser round to fit in a 44-40 chambered rifle.

By the time the Spaghetti Westerns came into popularity they were using .45 Colt caliber lever guns which the Italians made in huge numbers. Made it easy for the prop guys to supply blanks when the pistols and rifles were using the same blank ammunition.

Once spoke to a Hollywood Special Effect Specialist about why people were shown wearing bandoliers of over-sized cartridges when they were carrying pistol cartridge rifles. 'It looks impressive to the public.' Was his answer. Doesn't impress me! Makes the FX people look as if they don't know firearms. Incidentally, most don't and furthermore, they don't care. As for rifles carried by the U.S. Calvary during the period of the emergence of the lever action, according to those that (should) know, troopers were allowed to purchase their on 'repeaters' if they wished to do so. Sooo, many would have been carrying Henrys and later Winchester and perhaps Spencers.

 

[Flintlock Whiskey]

Never cared for O'Neal! Pretty-boy only.

I'd like to see them do a remake with Mr. Bean.

 

[BP Addict]

Sgt Schultz carried a .30-40 Krag in Hogan's Heros.

He refused to carry a German made rifle.

Probably because he wasn't a big fan of the Nazis. This is from a Mini-Bio I found online:

"John Banner, who achieved television immortality for his portrayal of the Luftwaffe POW camp guard Sergeant Schultz in the TV series Hogan's Heroes (1965), was born on Tuesday, January 28th, 1910 in Vienna., which in 1938 was then the capital of the Austro-Hungarian Empire.

The 28-year-old Banner, who was Jewish, was forced to flee from his homeland to avoid being captured after the Anschluss (union) between Nazi Germany and Austria. This occurred while he was engaged in a tour of Switzerland with an acting company. Unable to return to Austria due to Hitler's anti-Semitic policies of persecution, Banner emigrated to the United States of America as a political refugee."

Walt

 

[BP Addict]

I have a bad habit of pointing out historical inaccuracies of firearms in movies. At least those that were Black Powder.

Several decades ago, I watched the Sante Fe trail with Ronald Reagan. They were storming the Harper’s Ferry Arsenal taken over by Abolitionist, John Brown. In their hands were Colt Peacemakers instead of the 1858 Army Revolver which would have been the Officer’s sidearm in 1859 when this took place. The giveaway was the cartridge extractor!

Most recently, was in “The Men Who Built America Series: Frontiersmen.” At the Battle of San Pasqual, John C. Fremont and a young Kit Carson are engaged in a battle with the Mexican Army near present-day San Diego. One scene shows a Flintlock Rifle, another a Civil War Percussion Musket, then back to the Flintlock.

Walt

 

[Iron Jim Rackham]

I think the casting was perfect and Ryan O'Neal did a good job portraying a charming opportunist. Lady Lyndon wasn't in love with him because of his character or moral fortitude. She was married to an old aristocrat and wanted to split the sheets with a handsome rascal. She found what she was looking for in Redmond Barry...a pretty boy swordsman.

As far as the authenticity of the firearms, it bears mentioning that the movie was made in 1975. It was hoped that interest in the American bicentennial would "draw a crowd." There weren't a whole lot of authentic flintlocks available to the studio as props. The fact that they used Short Land pattern muskets as opposed to Long Land pattern muskets, didn't spoil the show for me. The dueling pistols impressed me as did those of Captain Feeney. Considering when the movie was made, I think Kubrick did an excellent job.

 

[Flintlock Whiskey]

I think the casting was perfect and Ryan O'Neal did a good job portraying a charming opportunist. Lady Lyndon wasn't in love with him because of his character or moral fortitude. She was married to an old aristocrat and wanted to split the sheets with a handsome rascal. She found what she was looking for in Redmond Barry...a pretty boy swordsman.

.

That first paragraph would have sounded good on the dvd box. Good summation.