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Battle accounts of matchlocks vs. flintlocks?

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user 56333

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I'm curious if there are many historical records, anecdotes, etc. that give an account of a battle where matchlock and flintlock firearms saw combat against each other. It would be interesting to get an idea of just how much of a disadvantage a matchlock would really be against a flintlock, assuming other factors like the soldiers training, the length of the gun, etc. were more or less equal.

Within the "flintlock" category here I'm willing to include earlier flint-ignition precursors like doglocks, snaphances, etc.

The only examples I can think of where matchlocks and flintlocks were pitted against each other happened during the First Opium War, and in these cases it's hard to say how much the weapon itself made a difference, considering the notable gap in quality between the British and Chinese armies of the time (the matchlock-using Chinese soldiers were, on average, less well trained and organized than their flintlock-using British adversaries).
 
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Your best bet would be looking through the European conflicts between 1650-1700. That is when full units equipped with flintlock type weapons became more common. The New Model Army also used them in Ireland for general combat and with artillery guards in the main conflicts. May be a good starting point to look.

While the opposite context from what you are looking for, the various 1600s natives vs English colonizers conflicts in America (King Philips war the most famous) have accounts of flint locks being preferable to matchlocks, with some militia rules (guidelines? laws?) banning matchlocks. I believe the natives were actually better armed with flintlocks during some battles in King Philips war. In all these cases, flint lock applies to the entire family of mechanisms.
 
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Maybe the term 'firelock' should be used above, in place of flintlock, as the progression was (disregarding wheellocks) of shaphaunce, miquelet, English lock, doglock, to the true French-type flintlock).

I also agree with TobJohn for the Colonies that once there was access to more reliable ignition arms, that is what was wanted! And I've read the same citation a few times in many places. And I believe I've also read that if/when the NDNs had firelocks, they were traded to them by the French.


Early 'Arm' Battles - This site here makes the claim that matchlocks and wheellocks were used with each other for ~100-years, but no links or such discussion as posed is addressed: https://owlcation.com/humanities/Ma...nd-Flintlocks-How-Early-Small-Arms-Were-Fired

Snaphaunce - Link = Snaphance - Wikipedia [See any emphasis I added ... ]
The snaphance was used from the mid 16th century, most commonly in pistol form as a weapon for officers and cavalry. It was used alongside the inferior wheellock in the 16th and 17th centuries, with different countries favoring different mechanisms. James Turners' Pallas Armata, written in the 1630s, noted that the snaphance (and other flintlocks) reigned supreme among cavalry in France, Britain, and the Dutch Republic, while the wheellock was still more common in the German lands: "The French use locks with half bends (snaphaunces), and so do for the most part the English and Scots; the Germans rore or wheel-locks; the Hollanders make use of both."

Fragility, complexity, and cost kept it from replacing the matchlock in the hands of infantry, though the latter issue became less prominent as technology improved. By 1645 a matchlock musket cost 10 shillings in Britain compared to 15 shillings for a flintlock musket. However, flintlocks were still much cheaper than wheellocks; in 1631 the Royal Armoury's purchase records show the going rate as 3 pounds (60 shillings) for a pair of wheellock pistols versus 2 pounds (40 shillings) for a pair of flintlock pistols.[3]

By about 1680, it was gradually superseded and was still occasionally issued to reinforcements for Portugal for the British Army in the Wars of the Spanish Succession of 1703 and in Northern Italy where it was still in use until the 1750s. In Europe, and especially France, the snaphance was replaced by the flintlock with its combined steel/pan cover starting from about 1620. In England, a hybrid mechanism called the English Lock replaced the snaphance from the same date. Both the flintlock and the English lock were cheaper and less complex than the snaphance.

The snaphance dominated the New England gun market until it fell out of favor in the middle of the 17th Century. Virginia, Massachusetts, and Connecticut outlawed the outdated mechanism by the late 17th century.[4]


English Civil War - It still was volley fire that ruled the day and the later development of the bayonet that gave a musketeer the battlefield advantage. Reading through some of these links ... there's no real measure one way or the other - by my read anyway. But what a great question!

Websites
https://www.historyonthenet.com/english-civil-war-weapons
https://earlofmanchesters.co.uk/the...eller-devastating-weapon-of-the-17th-century/

Abstract - Journal of Conflict Archaeology
chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://dspace.lib.cranfield.ac.uk/bitstream/handle/1826/14894/Ballistics_of_seventeenth_century_musket_balls-2019.pdf?sequence=4

Here's some content from that research paper above [along with my thoughts]:

Introduction - 17th Century muskets Inspection of the 52 weapons in the Littlecote Collection (The Royal Armouries, Leeds, UK) suggested that the main weapon used in the English Civil War was typically a 10 bore matchlock musket with a 48 "(1.22 m) long barrel;
[That is one HEAVY musket ... so maybe there would be a tactical advantage 'if' firelocks users had a smaller bore and lighter arm ... but I doubt it, plus they still fired in volley fire, rank and file, etc.]

Conclusion - Wadding was originally thought to have been used by 17th Century musketeers. However, it was shown that the appearance of musket balls fired without wadding showed a closer resemblance to some of the original 17th Century musket ball than those fired with wadding. It was thought that wadding would have increased the muzzle velocity of the musket by preventing gas leakage past the musket ball in the barrel. This was found to be the case, but the effect was surprisingly low. Variations in bore diameter showed a significant variation in velocity, especially when fired without a wad because of the change in gas leakage past the ball, but produced little change on the outcome of the final resting position of the musket ball.
[See the underlined parts above ... while they don't address the OP's question, I find those claims to be intriguing!]
 
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Abstract - Journal of Conflict Archaeology
chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://dspace.lib.cranfield.ac.uk/bitstream/handle/1826/14894/Ballistics_of_seventeenth_century_musket_balls-2019.pdf?sequence=4

Here's some content from that research paper above [along with my thoughts]:

Introduction - 17th Century muskets Inspection of the 52 weapons in the Littlecote Collection (The Royal Armouries, Leeds, UK) suggested that the main weapon used in the English Civil War was typically a 10 bore matchlock musket with a 48 "(1.22 m) long barrel;
[That is one HEAVY musket ... so maybe there would be a tactical advantage 'if' firelocks users had a smaller bore and lighter arm ... but I doubt it, plus they still fired in volley fire, rank and file, etc.]
Interesting that the muskets were so large. Osprey books are very hit or miss, but Matchlock Musketeer 1588-1688, by Keith Roberts, claims that shorter and lighter muskets were adopted by the English in the 1630s. The New Model Army also stopped using rests but I cant really imagine using some of the Royal Armouries' examples without them.

It looks like your article did its research and I have seen some of the online examples that they used, so I am inclined to believe that over the Osprey book.
 
Interesting that the muskets were so large. Osprey books are very hit or miss, but Matchlock Musketeer 1588-1688, by Keith Roberts, claims that shorter and lighter muskets were adopted by the English in the 1630s. The New Model Army also stopped using rests but I cant really imagine using some of the Royal Armouries' examples without them.

It looks like your article did its research and I have seen some of the online examples that they used, so I am inclined to believe that over the Osprey book.

I've read that book myself and it does mention that shorter/lighter "caliver" type firearms were already in service during the late 16th century, just not standard issue. Can't recall the claim you mentioned about lighter muskets from the 1630s, I'll have to go back and check my copy...

When I visited an English Civil War museum in England they had several examples on display of "standard" service muskets of the period, and most looked quite hefty. There's a reason you see so many illustrations from that period of guys shooting muskets from a forked rest.
 
I've read that book myself and it does mention that shorter/lighter "caliver" type firearms were already in service during the late 16th century, just not standard issue. Can't recall the claim you mentioned about lighter muskets from the 1630s, I'll have to go back and check my copy...

When I visited an English Civil War museum in England they had several examples on display of "standard" service muskets of the period, and most looked quite hefty. There's a reason you see so many illustrations from that period of guys shooting muskets from a forked rest.
EB4CF94F-7347-4B1C-872A-291BA016E49B.jpeg

A little more ambiguous than I had originally interpreted it.

I will need to look back at some other sources, but I believe most protestant armies (Sweden and the Netherlands) went for lighter muskets by the 1630s. The Suhl examples from that period also tend to be around 10lbs, opposed to the older 13-15lbs.
 
I will need to look back at some other sources, but I believe most protestant armies (Sweden and the Netherlands) went for lighter muskets by the 1630s. The Suhl examples from that period also tend to be around 10lbs, opposed to the older 13-15lbs.

It's during discussions like this that I stop and remember that, on average, people back then were smaller than today, and start to wonder just how well some malnourished 5'6" footsoldier was able to handle a 16 lb firearm... Guess people just complained less than we do today.
 
It's during discussions like this that I stop and remember that, on average, people back then were smaller than today, and start to wonder just how well some malnourished 5'6" footsoldier was able to handle a 16 lb firearm... Guess people just complained less than we do today.
It helps when you don’t have the option to complain.

I had actually posted something along those same lines in another thread recently. The Spanish found that some of their national tercios were in such poor physical shape, that they couldn’t comfortably handle muskets, which is why they used a high ratio of arquebuses.
 
It helps when you don’t have the option to complain.

I had actually posted something along those same lines in another thread recently. The Spanish found that some of their national tercios were in such poor physical shape, that they couldn’t comfortably handle muskets, which is why they used a high ratio of arquebuses.

Didn't know that, but it makes sense. In the context of this thread, I wonder how likely it was that a "firelock"-armed unit would encounter a matchlock-armed unit carrying firearms a good deal heavier than theirs. Or had the weight of matchlock muskets more or less lightened by then to being comparable to your average snaphaunce, doglock, etc. musket? I don't know enough about flint-ignition guns of that period (i.e. 16th-17th century) to know how their size/weight compared.
 
Didn't know that, but it makes sense. In the context of this thread, I wonder how likely it was that a "firelock"-armed unit would encounter a matchlock-armed unit carrying firearms a good deal heavier than theirs. Or had the weight of matchlock muskets more or less lightened by then to being comparable to your average snaphaunce, doglock, etc. musket? I don't know enough about flint-ignition guns of that period (i.e. 16th-17th century) to know how their size/weight compared.
This one seems to be:
Flintlock muzzle-loading military musket Fish tail musket from Dunster Castle - Royal Armouries collections

Many of the wheellock muskets from the end of the 16th century are pretty huge and match up with the matchlocks. Would make sense if the trend continued.
 
That one linked as the Dunster Castle fishtail musket is an English Lock musket. I have a pretty darn similar one of 48" barrel in 75-cal (made from The Rifle Shoppe parts) and she weighs only a hair under 8-pounds. Everyone at this past weekend's SoVT MZL Biathlon, who hefted her, commented on 2 things ... just how light it was for what otherwise appears to be a big, heavy musket, and how easily it shouldered and cheeked.

IMG_2685.JPG


Note: Their info says a 46" barrel and converted from a wheellock ... but I don't believe that for one minute ... as there are no 'extra' holes in the lockplate. Maybe it was a conversion from a snaphaunce lock, that I could believe.
 
That one linked as the Dunster Castle fishtail musket is an English Lock musket. I have a pretty darn similar one of 48" barrel in 75-cal (made from The Rifle Shoppe parts) and she weighs only a hair under 8-pounds. Everyone at this past weekend's SoVT MZL Biathlon, who hefted her, commented on 2 things ... just how light it was for what otherwise appears to be a big, heavy musket, and how easily it shouldered and cheeked.

View attachment 198281

Note: Their info says a 46" barrel and converted from a wheellock ... but I don't believe that for one minute ... as there are no 'extra' holes in the lockplate. Maybe it was a conversion from a snaphaunce lock, that I could believe.
Their’s does look chonkier than yours so I could see it weighing more, but I agree about the wheellock conversion being suspect.

If anything, I could see it being a matchlock conversion:
Matchlock muzzle-loading musket Fishtail type - Royal Armouries collections
 
However good the soldier, it seems both types of lock were equally susceptible to moisture. I recall one story from the First Opium War where a group of British colonial troops from India (armed with flintlocks) were caught in the rain in a skirmish outside Canton. Their weapons failed to work (as did any matchlocks on the Chinese side), and they were only saved from being mobbed by a horde of spear-wielding Chinese militia when a party of Royal Marines showed up carrying percussion guns, which of course they did manage to operate in the rain.

Training on the Chinese side was sometimes severely lacking, and I've read one or two stories of Chinese soldiers from the 1800s blowing themselves up by accidentally igniting the powder charges they wore around their waist with the end of their lit match.

Here's a photo of a 19th-century Chinese soldier wearing the powder-charge belt I described, for reference:

ec84feabcba3525cb8069561be9f15241.jpg



Haven't heard of any similar accidents happening with matchlock-wielding Europeans wearing the (anachronistically titled) "twelve apostles" bandolier back in the 1600s, but I guess in theory it could happen if you were clumsy enough...
 
However good the soldier, it seems both types of lock were equally susceptible to moisture. I recall one story from the First Opium War where a group of British colonial troops from India (armed with flintlocks) were caught in the rain in a skirmish outside Canton. Their weapons failed to work (as did any matchlocks on the Chinese side), and they were only saved from being mobbed by a horde of spear-wielding Chinese militia when a party of Royal Marines showed up carrying percussion guns, which of course they did manage to operate in the rain.

Training on the Chinese side was sometimes severely lacking, and I've read one or two stories of Chinese soldiers from the 1800s blowing themselves up by accidentally igniting the powder charges they wore around their waist with the end of their lit match.

Here's a photo of a 19th-century Chinese soldier wearing the powder-charge belt I described, for reference:

ec84feabcba3525cb8069561be9f15241.jpg



Haven't heard of any similar accidents happening with matchlock-wielding Europeans wearing the (anachronistically titled) "twelve apostles" bandolier back in the 1600s, but I guess in theory it could happen if you were clumsy enough...
Do you know what their charge containers were made of?

I have seen passing mention of apostles being an explosive risk, but no actual accounts of it happening. Paper cartridges started to be used in Europe in the late 1500s and firelock armed troops were a first priority, due to their elite or specialist status. This could give an advantage to those troops in an otherwise even matchup with matchlock troops. By the end of the 30 years war, paper cartridges became common with matchlock troops too.
 
As has been alluded to, the transition wasn't matchlock to flintlock. A flintlock is a very specific thing, with many contemporaries and predecessors.
 
Do you know what their charge containers were made of?

Bamboo if my sources are correct. I've not yet seen any surviving examples for myself.

I know that the Japanese had an interesting thing for their matchlocks called a "hayago", which was a sort of quick-loading device carrying powder and ball. You opened one end and poured the powder down the muzzle, then reversed it, opened the other end, and stuck your ramrod through the tube to push the ball in to the barrel. I'm not sure how they were carried though (bandoleer? pouch?). I haven't heard of any accidents with those, although my knowledge of Japanese matchlock history is nothing to speak of...

Here's a photo of a Japanese "hayago" for reference:

59fb555f10a98052687fb927602ca843.jpg


Paper cartridges started to be used in Europe in the late 1500s and firelock armed troops were a first priority, due to their elite or specialist status. This could give an advantage to those troops in an otherwise even matchup with matchlock troops. By the end of the 30 years war, paper cartridges became common with matchlock troops too.

Really? Huh, from what I've read the "twelve apostles" bandoleer was still standard issue (at least among the British) through to the end of the English Civil War. I've even seen some claims that they were still commonly issued during the Glorious Revolution of the 1680s. I always thought paper cartridges didn't really become common until the 1700s.

And today, we announce the 1st ever Chinese soldier ever to be in space ... ID's or named as one 'Sum Ting Wong' ... :ghostly:

Certainly would have been an awful way to go...

As has been alluded to, the transition wasn't matchlock to flintlock. A flintlock is a very specific thing, with many contemporaries and predecessors.

Depends on the country. As mentioned with my example of China, some countries were using matchlocks clear up to the time when metallic cartridges started coming around. So they were certainly contemporary with the "true" flintlocks used by other nations. I mentioned in my opening post that I'm willing to include earlier "flint-ignition" systems (like doglocks) into the generalisation of "flintlock" that I initially made.
 
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