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Beating the snot out of a rifle!

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CaptainKirk

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I know this is a "tetchy" subject, as most of you are like me...gun lovers!...but, has anyone built a kit gun or bought a nice new muzzleloader only to (purposely!) beat the holy manure out of it, deliberately banging, nicking, dinging and gouging the stock and allowing the barrel and other metal parts to rust and/or corrode to obtain that "old" look? If so, please post some pix here on this thread; tell me what you did to obtain the "weathered look" and if you are happy with the results? Thanks!
The reason I ask, is I saw a rifle on TV the other day presented as an "antique" which was unmasked as a fraud by a weapons expert who stated these "counterfeit" guns are becoming more & more common these days. The gun looked pretty beat-up and old to me (read; "antique")
 
Heck, just loan it to me with instructions to be very, very careful with it. :surrender:

I'm really not that bad, but I don't own a gun I don't use, no safe queens in my house. I hunt with my flinter, and that involves being out in the woods with it. It's going to get the occasional scratch or ding climbing up and down treestands or falling on a muddy creek bank while trying to be extra sneaky looking for that trophy buck that hides on the back 40. :grin:

In all reality, I think that trying to antique a gun is a tricky business that can go over the line very quickly if you're not careful.

The metal is pretty straightforward, if I recall correctly, there was a group of raiders during the revolution who took used cleaning patches and rubbed them on the barrel to dull it and reduce the shine.

The wood is where I think it would get tricky. The times I've scratched mine, I just took more of the Watco Danish Oil I used to refinish my stock and rubbed it in, and it makes small scratches disappear and larger ones look like they've been there a hundred years. I'm sure someone has something more to say about that.
 
Quite a few contemporary builders go to great lengths to perfect and achieve the art of artificial aging. They apply it when needed, desired and or requested.

Look at one of Mr. Brooks recent military firearm builds... Believe it was a first model Bess...
 
I recently got to fire a new Tryon rifle a friend of mine built for another person. Normally I would not be able to play with a new rifle built for another person but the client wanted it to look used. The builder did some other things to the finish and the client was happy.

One of the sillyest things I had happen is one guy at work wanted me to look at his great grandfather's rifle that was brought west over the Oregon Trail. He brought it in and it turned out to be a Jukar CVA Kentucky dinged up a little. He wasn't happy when I told him what was worth. It still had the CVA stamps on the barrel.
 
To get the used well \worn look on my guns i just carry them in the feild and use them, that way the age got there honest. and every ding or dent has a story behind it
 
I think the term is to "defrubish".
It's about removing modern marks from the gun and adding stamps or marks replicating olde makers or styles.
It's not so much beating up a rifle as you say, but a good look is to add darkened areas of wear at the wrist and forearm,,inside any graving or carvings.
Guns where generaly cared for and not beat-up, but handleing added oils from the hands, and cleaning.
Guy's will actually spray paint black and rub it out, or darker dies used in areas,,,soften or remove parts of the carvings to show wear,,,
 
That's kinda what I was gettin' at. It adds a tinge of realism, provided one is not trying to "snow" somebody into laying out big scratch for a "real antique".
The guy on the TV show was kind of upset. Hey; the truth hurts!
 
Some of the best at aging rifles who are still working at it:
Eric Kettenburg
Jud Brennan
The House brothers - Herschel and Frank
Mike Brooks
Jack Hubbard
and many others in the Contmeporary Long rifle Association.....

To do it right is not a simple one or two step process - it's an overall process using acids, dyes, and other methods to make one look properly old - unfortuantley far too many are taking the quick route and the difference is obvious.
As to "fakes" - yes as always there are those trying to pawn such pieces off as originals, but it's nothing new (folks have been faking since at least the ancient Egyptians) and an informed/expereinced collector will know the difference - the less informed should follow that Roman adage - caveat emptor........
 
A couple years ago I built a blanket gun, 14" barrel, cut off right behind the trigger guard finial. My initial plan was to age it. So, I build this really nice little gun, perfect in all respects. When it was finished, aging done on the lock and barrel, the wood looking a little distressed came the hard part. I held it at shoulder height and dropped it on the concrete floor and then kicked it across the shop shchriiiipppptzzz across the floor to where it banged against the far wall. Then I broke off one of the tacks. I lined it up to put two perfect defects in the forestock with the edge of the anvil. Next was to give the muzzle a couple good raps with a ballpeen hammer, ding the barrel. I just had a ball beating on the thing. Tap tap tap around the lock area with 80 grit and small hammer. I put 200 years abuse on it in two minutes. Then burn a hole through the butt for a lanyard. This is not for the faint of heart. :rotf: It's not easy to do. I did stop short of breaking off any splinters.

It is for sale, it will look great in someone's tipi and I'm sure some one, somewhere will buy it. In the meantime I'm enjoying packing it around and telling people, " I was digging in my backyard when my shovel hit something that sounded like metal...."
 
Hey Matt, can you post some pictures?? Like you say....not for the faint of heart. I don't think I could do it, the guns get dinged up naturally and I'm trying to rub more oil on them to make them look better.
 
Well, I should say that I did kinda age a new Uberti '49 Colt by using bleach on the barrel and frame, and steel wooling the grips. That's as far as I took it.
 
I antiqued a couple of my 1860's too. I used vinegar. It looks good on revolvers, and most of the original guns look that way. I don't think they put a good bluing on the military guns in those days. I didn't beat the gun to do it though. It took a lot of rubbing to get it just right.

Rifles are different to me though. They should look nice.
 
I have to admit that I don't get it, especially for re-enactors.

Soldiers in the Civil war were issued NEW rifles, they looked new, and Sgt's being Sgt's, I doubt they were told to "take it out and beat it up so it'll look more antiqueish".

Same with the mountain men. I have a real hard time believing that they didn't take really good care of what was probably the single most expensive piece of hardware they owned.

The first thing that pops into my mind when I hear someone talking about doing this is that they are intending to commit some type of fraud on someone.

Can anyone explain this to me?
 
I'd be happy to...
After several seasons in the mountains, well cared for or not, even the finest of Sam and Jake's handiworks would have seen snow, emersion in rivers, fallen down rocky slopes, and probably stove in a Crow or two's skull. (Just watch Jeremiah Johnson again.) Look at the Hawken guns in the various museums around the U.S...none of them look "fresh issue" to me. I'm thinking in terms of rendezvous authentic looks, rather than trying to hoodwink anybody.
Like many of the posters here, I'm not sure If I could do that to a gun, though...
 
What you say is true about the guns being well used and getting their share of dings.

On the other hand, original stocks that are black are that color because of the oxidized oil on them.
This oxidizing takes many years to develop and a Mountain Man carrying around a gun that was made 5-15 years earlier wouldn't be carrying a gun with a black finish.

I have nothing against folks who want their newly made guns to look 150-250 years old as long as they aren't trying to tell folks that it is actually that old.
 
Tkendrick said:
I have to admit that I don't get it, especially for re-enactors.

Soldiers in the Civil war were issued NEW rifles, they looked new, and Sgt's being Sgt's, I doubt they were told to "take it out and beat it up so it'll look more antiqueish".

Same with the mountain men. I have a real hard time believing that they didn't take really good care of what was probably the single most expensive piece of hardware they owned.

The first thing that pops into my mind when I hear someone talking about doing this is that they are intending to commit some type of fraud on someone.

Can anyone explain this to me?

1) NO not all soldiers during the ACW were issued new guns, especially amongst the Confederates who often had problems getting new equipment.

2) Not all Mtn Men carried new guns - many brought from the east the guns handed down to them and others bought used - there were even used guns on the trade lists taken to rendezvous. And while it may seem that they would be taken care of, based on period journals that was not always true, there are several notes about the men using poor guns as an excuse for not bringing back game, etc.

As to wear and tear - as noted guns could get beat up quickly under the adverse conditions experienced. Again read the journals for period observations. Even military expeditions such as L & C and Pike, where discipline would have been higher, they note how quickly guns were worn and or damaged, sometimes beyond repair. In fact L & C noted in one of their letters that if it had not been for their gun/blacksmith their guns would have been out of commission within just the first few months.

On the other hand, original stocks that are black are that color because of the oxidized oil on them.
This oxidizing takes many years to develop and a Mountain Man carrying around a gun that was made 5-15 years earlier wouldn't be carrying a gun with a black finish.
With all due respect Zonie, but that's not necessarily correct - blackening can occur both from oxidizing oil varnish (most guns of the era were oil varnished not oiled or greased to use the period term) and from improper neutralizing of the Aqua Fortis so commonly used to stain the common maple stocks or a combo of both.
With the original type oil varnishes it can take as little as 6 months or so to oxidize dark when carried 24/7/365, especially in the high dry west with the intense sunlight, but also due to grunge i.e. dirt, powder residue, etc. With AF it can occur in a matter of days. FWIW - Both observations are based on real life experience using the materials listed.

As to fraud - for many craftsman it is an "art" form and for users who may not have the ability to get out and do it as often as possible, it is a way of aiding their mid set - the ability to help them push back the years so to speak - in neither case does it necessarily have to do with fraud - it's only fraud when there is criminal intent involved or trying to make one self more than one really is i.e. lying...
Yes fraud and lying occur and their wrong no matter what the circumstances. Some folks will claim that those who age their goods make it "easier" for the criminal - true to a point, but then again those who choose to be a criminal will commit the fraud whether the piece is already aged or not - that's why they are criminals and such fraud is nothing new - it's been going on since at least the ancient Egyptians. Others will claim that it's dishonest - and again that can be true but only if some one makes a false claim......

Bottom line if you don't like it don't do it, but unless there is criminal intent leave the other folks who choose to alone - as for the liars, as long as there's not criminal intent I leave them alone as well - it's not my "job" to expose them especially since their lies will eventually hoist them on their own petard........
 
CaptainKirk said:
I know this is a "tetchy" subject, as most of you are like me...gun lovers!...but, has anyone built a kit gun or bought a nice new muzzleloader only to (purposely!) beat the holy manure out of it, deliberately banging, nicking, dinging and gouging the stock and allowing the barrel and other metal parts to rust and/or corrode to obtain that "old" look? If so, please post some pix here on this thread; tell me what you did to obtain the "weathered look" and if you are happy with the results? Thanks!
The reason I ask, is I saw a rifle on TV the other day presented as an "antique" which was unmasked as a fraud by a weapons expert who stated these "counterfeit" guns are becoming more & more common these days. The gun looked pretty beat-up and old to me (read; "antique")






How about this?

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Another one...I restocked an old original that had such a delapidated stock it wouldn't have been able to have been used (it would have mostly been glue!)

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On the second set of pictures, to get an aged look I intentionally broke off and re-glued pieces of the forstock to get the look of a past repair. I also allowed for a gap (very slight) in the breechplug mortis. The breechplug was new and also had to be aged (done with very light ball peen hammer strikes and plier teeth marks, then allowed to rust). In several places the stock was gouged and I even used a pocket knife to slice off sharp corners near the toe plate...the owner loved it.
 
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