Belgian musket

[Kevin in NC]

I received this one yesterday. It looks like a French M1777 but has a Belgian proof mark, ELG over a star in an oval, which my info shows to be in use from 1811 to 1892.

The newish sling, leather frizzen protector and shiny, new brass guard suggests to me that this may have been a reenactor's gun fairly recently. Lots of scabby rust that I intend to clean. The bore is .701" and almost perfect. This should be a good shooter.

It has no military markings and only a few other markings here and there. I think this may be a trade musket from the late 1800's or even the early 1900's. I've done nothing so far other than scrub the bore. I'll dismount the barrel and lock and look for more clues. More photos to come.
Kevin in NC

 

[Cruzatte]

Looking forward to your next post.

 

[OLUT]

Looking forward to your added photos (please take some of the trigger guard and all the stampings). If your gun has two finger ridges (or whatever they are called) on the rear of the trigger guard, which is hidden by your wooden support in the photo, here's my guess.... it looks like a "fusil d'infanterie No.1", or the first musket of the country of Belgium after they declared independence in 1830. This model is basically the same as the French M 1822 . But, typically there should be a makers mark on the lock plate in addition to the Liege proof marks on the barrel. Both my French and Belgian versions fire well, so you should be able to enjoy shooting yours after inspection to assure that the gun is still sound.

 

[Kevin in NC]

Belgian proof. My reference says this one was used from 1811 to 1892.

Brass pan. Haven't measured the vent yet but it doesn't look eroded from excessive use.

Some other specs...
OAL, 57-7/8"; barrel length, 42-11/16"; weight, 10 lbs on my crappy little hanging scale; trigger pull, 4-5 lbs on same scale.
Kevin in NC

 

[Kevin in NC]

Looking forward to your added photos (please take some of the trigger guard and all the stampings). If your gun has two finger ridges (or whatever they are called) on the rear of the trigger guard, which is hidden by your wooden support in the photo, here's my guess.... it looks like a "fusil d'infanterie No.1", or the first musket of the country of Belgium after they declared independence in 1830. This model is basically the same as the French M 1822 . But, typically there should be a makers mark on the lock plate in addition to the Liege proof marks on the barrel. Both my French and Belgian versions fire well, so you should be able to enjoy shooting yours after inspection to assure that the gun is still sound.

Thanks for the info. Yes, it has the two ridges. No maker's mark on the lock and only a few other scattered markings. 34 on rear barrel band, 26 near the end of the trigger guard, FB stamped in the stock below the trigger guard, 18 on the bayonet lug, W on the left stock flat. The rammer has IX and some assembly slash marks. I'm about to dismount the barrel and lock and look for more clues.

 

[Kevin in NC]

The lock looks good inside with only a small S or 5 on the tumbler and \/ // on the inner edge of the frizzen or steel.

\// /// assembly marks on both the barrel and stock. No other markings in the stock channel. Unlike the British, the Belgians seem to have been rather parsimonious in their markings.

A .093" pin gauge is a snug fit in the vent. The vent is clean, not eroded and shows no signs of ever having been percussioned. The barrel is clean and shiny beneath the woodline. The lock mortise looks clean and professional. What is that broad arrow doing there? Despite a few dings, the stock appears to be quite sound with no cracks, rot or repairs. I'll give it a good rub with Kramer's and some TLC with BLO.

No other proof marks under the barrel except what looks like AN.

Other than the rust topside, this one seems to be a solid piece. Even with the auction fees, I got it in hand for far less than I would have paid for a Pedersoli repro Bess or M1777. I'm still interested in your thoughts or opinions what this might be.
Kevin in NC

 

[Kevin in NC]

Part of my rationale for thinking that this may be a later trade gun is this entry in the Georges Laloux catalog, from the early 20's, I believe. Scroll down to his listing no. 6402 F. Other than the noted barrel length, it looks identical to mine.
https://littlegun.be/arme belge/artisans identifies l/a laloux georges gb.htm

 

[OLUT]

Part of my rationale for thinking that this may be a later trade gun is this entry in the Georges Laloux catalog, from the early 20's, I believe. Scroll down to his listing no. 6402 F. Other than the noted barrel length, it looks identical to mine.
https://littlegun.be/arme belge/artisans identifies l/a laloux georges gb.htm

Kevin, Laloux, Bannerman and many others sold surplus antiquated military guns that they bought cheap from the arsenals of various countries. Your # 6402 is one of them. My ALFA catalog from 1911 indicated that they had 1300 of the French model

in stock (selling for 17 German Marks). Indeed, your photos clearly show that you have the Belgian version. Here's a comparison with the French version. Note that there were lots of minor variations between contract makers on these early guns

 

[Kevin in NC]

Thanks for the info. I'll check my 1927 Bannerman catalog. Even in '27 they listed some pretty old stuff for sale.

 

[Kevin in NC]

The lock has been de-rusted, inspected and reassembled. It wasn't very rusty or dirty anyway. No significant markings were found, just the assembly \/// marks and a few numbers stamped here and there.

The frizzen spring is extremely strong.

It doesn't have much wear and came apart easily.

 

[Kevin in NC]

Thanks for the info. I'll check my 1927 Bannerman catalog. Even in '27 they listed some pretty old stuff for sale.

I found several French pattern flintlocks in my Bannerman catalog. Some clearly said they were marked St. Etienne but others were not clear. Perhaps this is one of the generic listings.

 

[Kevin in NC]

The other parts have been soaking in a very strong caustic solution and derusted with a brass brush and carding wheel. There is still some rust and pitting but not like it was. The buttplate looked particularly bad.

The barrel spent 2 weeks soaking in the solution. I had it vertical in a piece of 2" PVC with a length of paracord and pulley to hoist it out to scrub and dunk. Look at my earlier photo of the proof mark for comparison. I have minor pitting here and there and some rust stains remaining but at least the hideous rust scabs are gone.

This is what the solution looked like afterwards. I'm saving it for another rusty musket that I hope to have soon.

And now to give the stock a good rub.
Kevin in NC

 

[Kevin in NC]

Looking forward to your added photos (please take some of the trigger guard and all the stampings). If your gun has two finger ridges (or whatever they are called) on the rear of the trigger guard, which is hidden by your wooden support in the photo, here's my guess.... it looks like a "fusil d'infanterie No.1", or the first musket of the country of Belgium after they declared independence in 1830. This model is basically the same as the French M 1822 . But, typically there should be a makers mark on the lock plate in addition to the Liege proof marks on the barrel. Both my French and Belgian versions fire well, so you should be able to enjoy shooting yours after inspection to assure that the gun is still sound.

I found this link to the "fusil d'infanterie No.1"
https://littlegun.be/arme belge/fusils reglementaires/1 1 infanterie no 1 fr.htm

 

[Kevin in NC]

This one cleaned up well. The rust removal revealed a crack in the rear barrel band but I won't lose any sleep over it.

Again, refer to my earlier photo of the vent to see how well the caustic soak allowed the rust to be brushed and carded away. Also notice that the stock is now brown, whereas before it was nearly black.

The entire stock was encrusted with an almost black coating of dried oil or grease. Kramer's had almost no effect on it. I rubbed on some boiled linseed oil and let it sit for a few minutes. That softened the crust, so I started a rub and scrub with 0000 steel wool, then a wipe down with Kramer's which now was working. I repeated the process again a couple of times and let it sit in the corner overnight to soak up the BLO.

This morning, I re-scrubbed a few small spots and reassembled the gun.

I'm really happy with how this one turned out. It was cheaper and in better condition than my Tower Bess. I have a repro 1842 Springfield and comparing the two, I can really see the French influence in the Springfield. I've got a few paper cartridges made up for the Springfield so I'll give them a try in this one.
Kevin in NC