Bend the hammer or set back the barrel ?

[poker]

from everything i have seen, the Traditions all have a drum. rotate the drum counter clock wise a few degrees and forget about bending anything

Loosen it up? Maybe if you wanted to locktite it in, otherwise Im not sure

 

[nhmoose]

If the shorter nipple doesn't help, bending the hammer would be the next easiest thing.

I'm pretty sure it would need to be tempered also. Hammer takes a pretty good beating (is there a pun here? ), tempering helps relieve some of the brittleness that comes with quenching.

Why would you quench the hammer your just heating the curve to bend? No need to quench in fact quenching will create problems. Yes I have bent hammers with heat and never quenched a one. So absolutely no need to aneal.

 

[Idaho Ron]

I have bent all of mine. I use a vise to hold them. I heated them with an Oxyacetylene torch. Map gas or map gas with oxygen might turn it red.
After I got them red I slipped a pipe nipple over the part that strikes the cap. I moved it any direction I wanted. I also bent the spur that your thumb pulls back. Turn it red and move it.
Now that I no longer have a torch I would try my son's map gas oxygen rig or charcoal. It's not hard.

 

[2 shots]

i dont think you would want to give someone a gun with a loose drum.. , i think even shimming it might be a bad idea. even though its a small amount. but i would shim it before just backing it off. . im with the bend the hammer team. my .2 cents for free.

 

[Dusty_Traveler]

Why would you quench the hammer your just heating the curve to bend? No need to quench in fact quenching will create problems. Yes I have bent hammers with heat and never quenched a one. So absolutely no need to aneal.

I did not suggest to quench anything. Was replying to #4

 

[flconch53]

OK so someone stated to get information from someone who has done this. I have done many over the years. I have also bent hammer tangs to clear a scope or peep site. I can assure you that a hammer on a Traditions or any other import gun is not tempered. You probably can get the shank of the hammer to bend with propane . The most difficult part of this project can be removing the hammer as they are often stages on. It is important to remove the hammer so you don't affect parts that are tempered

 

[TDM]

OK so someone stated to get information from someone who has done this. I have done many over the years. I have also bent hammer tangs to clear a scope or peep site. I can assure you that a hammer on a Traditions or any other import gun is not tempered. You probably can get the shank of the hammer to bend with propane . The most difficult part of this project can be removing the hammer as they are often stages on. It is important to remove the hammer so you don't affect parts that are tempered

Absolutely positively remove the hammer! Didn't think that needed mentioning but I'm glad you did.

If anyone has trouble removing the hammer from the tumble on these locks or any lock, find a socket with a slightly larger inside diameter than the tumbler and use the socket to support the lock plate and use a properly sized squared punch to knock it out.

 

[Notchy Bob]

from everything i have seen, the Traditions all have a drum. rotate the drum counter clock wise a few degrees and forget about bending anything

I would be wary of rotating the drum on any of the imported guns. I don't know for sure, but I think the Traditions guns are breeched in the same way as the old CVA sidelock rifles. This image was originally posted by @Zonie (RIP):



As the image shows, the breechplug has a long, threaded shank. After the breechplug is fitted, they drill and fit the drum, which also has a long threaded shank. This is then line-bored through the rifle's muzzle to create a flash channel in the drum. If the drum is rotated, the flash channel will be out of alignment. The picture and caption explain how it is all fitted together. Note also the warranty statement. It would be a good idea to review the manual for the Traditions rifle to see if they have a similar warning. If I were to take one of these apart, I would make sure I had witness marks to indicate the original positions.

Absolutely positively remove the hammer! Didn't think that needed mentioning but I'm glad you did.

If anyone has trouble removing the hammer from the tumble on these locks or any lock, find a socket with a slightly larger inside diameter than the tumbler and use the socket to support the lock plate and use a properly sized squared punch to knock it out.

Yes!

I also like the idea of the socket, as @TDM describes. That's a good idea. I have a section of 2x4 with a 1" diameter blind hole bored in it. After removing all the rest of the lock's innards, I position the tumbler over the hole and punch it out of the hammer as described. The tumbler lands in the hole, and I just leave it there until I'm ready to re-install it.

Notchy Bob

 

[Colonial Boy]

If you can’t remove the hammer then grinding the cup until it clears the cap is a good option.
If the front needs relief then plenty can be taken out as many hammers are vented at the front.
Another option would be to bend the nipple slightly, and nipples can be hardened and tempered with very basic torches.

 

[Walkingeagle]

Fyi, my hammer bends have all been done with butane hand torch. Never a problem.
Walk

 

[kyron4]

Took the hammer off and heated the "neck" to a dull red with a fine tip oxy/Mapp torch. Just went a little bit. Let cool and tested. Clears cap now by about 1/32" could go more to get more centered, but don't want to tempt fate. I popped 5 caps with no issue, so good to go in my book. Thanks for all the advice it was truly informative and helpful.

 

[dragnetbill]

I'll try to get a photo, maybe tomorrow or the next day. However, with the T/C rifle, you can visualize the forward edge of the hammer cup coming town on the nipple, instead of the hammer cup surrounding the nipple.

I contacted L&R yesterday about possibly fitting one of their hammers as they have several with a 1-3/4" throw, and interestingly enough, the hammer on their T/C RPL lock is one of these. However, Tim advised me that the square holes for the tumbler shank on their hammers are not indexed properly for the factory T/C lock, and the square holes in the L&R hammers are too big for the T/C tumbler. Tim said, "You will need to get the hammer red hot to bend it so propane will not be enough. If you can get it red hot it will bend then let it air cool." I haven't given up on the idea of heating it in a bed of charcoal, and I think I have an idea for a bending jig that may work. Before starting this job, I also located and bought a spare T/C hammer at a reasonable price... Just in case I really screw something up... which has been known to happen. It will need fitting to the tumbler, but maybe I won't need it. As a last resort, I may try the longer hammer from Dixie, as mentioned in post #12.

Just for the record, I have heated and bent a CVA hammer that needed lateral adjustment, using a propane torch. It worked. However, the T/C hammer is more robust and the propane torch was inadequate, and as stated above, making an anterior-posterior bend is different from a lateral bend.

This seems like such a simple thing to do, and maybe it is with prior experience and a well equipped shop. However, it's a job I have just not needed to tackle before, and my "shop" at this point is whatever space I can clear in the garage.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob

Have you tried the back up hammer to see if it is "already bent"?

 

[ColonialRifleSmith]

To me, the easiest thing to try 1st is to remove some of the metal from the forward end of the cup of the hammer. TC makes the cup fairly thick and beveled. Removing some of the metal with a Dremel will not change the hammer and allow enough the clearance needed to fire correctly. Heating and bending would be a last resort. KISS principle. Semper Fi.

 

[Shadowalker164]

I too had that issue of the hammer dropping a tad forward of the nipple. I used the Drexel route on the forward area of the cup until I could slowly drop the hammer without interference with the nipple. Then discharged 30 or so rounds, seating the breach. This Traditions Kentucky is my favorite pistol

 

[Shadowalker164]

Thanks Notchy Bob for reposting Zonie’s CVA printed piece! It is far and away the best and clearest description of the breach I think I have

 

[beardedhorse]

If you rotate the drum counterclockwise and not shim it, the drum will turn clockwise with use. When I taught sculpture at the university, oxy acetylene torches would have easily gotten the hammer hot enough to bend. If I couldn't find a replacement hammer with the right geometry I could make one from scratch from wood and cast it in bronze. Find someone who welds and pay them to heat your hammer with the oxy-acetylene torch rather than messing with charcoal. Old timers did forge locks and barrels on charcoal but that took experienced hands.

 

[beardedhorse]

P.S. Shimming a drum with a washer will mean less thread engagment. Don't want a drum blowing out and hitting a neighbor on the firing line. I order blank drums and have a jig to align for drilling and tapping for a nipple. Just make sure you get the right thread size for the replacment drum.

 

[Buckskinquin]

A coworker brought over a Traditions Hawken cap lock that the hammer does not align with the nipple front to back. The front inside of the hammer cup rubs the front of the nipple, the hammer will hang up on a cap when lowered by hand but has enough force to slam over the cap and fire it when the trigger is pulled. I told him we have two options, heat the hammer and bend it slight forward or set the barrel back. Bending seems the best option but I worry about changing the geometry and not getting a square hit on the nipple or breaking the hammer. Instead of messing up the stock to set the tang back I thought I could mill off about 1/16" or so off the back face of the tang block to set the barrel back enough for proper alignment. This would also center the drum in the cut out in the lock plate , as of now it sits to far forward of center and rubs heavily. Anybody see a issue with this route ? Any input from anyone that has dealt with this issue ? -Thanks

If you unscrew the drum a bit, will the hammer strike true? Before bending anything, I’d try that. If it works, a thin copper washer under it for correct tightness. Regarding thread engagement lost, your talking a minute amount.

 

[flntlokr]

Did a barrel swap in a CVA and the hammer wouldn't line up with the cap. Gave it a little shove (left to right) and it lined up perfect. So, hammers must be soft?

Don't count on TC stuff not being hardened. Get it cherry red to bend. 'bin dere; done dat.

 

[Buckskinquin]

Don't count on TC stuff not being hardened. Get it cherry red to bend. 'bin dere; done dat.

Or like me, been der, broke dat!