Bending barrel for accuracy, How much is too much?

[pharmvet]

I recently purchased a Tulle fusil de chasse smoothbore (.62 cal) with a 42 inch barrel and found that the gun shot to the rt. and low. I contacted the maker who had already warned me that the archatecture of the stock predisposed these guns to shooting low and that the trick was to get your head up and not sight down the barrel. I sent the gun back to have the barrel bent to overcome hitting rt. Upon arrival I found that the barrel had indeed been bent slightly to the left but also upward (fairly severly). A very good three shot group target was included. I have no doubt that the gun now hits better, but there is quite an upward bend in the barrel. Is this acceptable or should the barrel look straight to the naked eye and only need minor (undetectable) adjustment.

 

[madstone]

Pharmvet,
Though bending a smoothies barrel is acceptable
I would find a bend that was obvious to the eye unacceptable. I would plead for a replacement barrel.
It was defective or it certainly wouldn't need a visible bend, it seems.
:m2c:

 

To those that know why the barrel is bent there will be no problem as long as it does shoot well.

The real problem will be with those that do not understand sighting in a smoothie.

Did you know your barrel is bent?
Did your run over your gun with the truck?
Did you know your barrel is bent?
How did you bend your barrel?
Your barrel is bent, did you know that?
How do you shoot with a bent barrel?
Did you know your barrel is bent?

:crackup: :crackup: :crackup:

 

Unfortunately, it sounds as if someone didn't know the bend should be gradual and over much of the length of the barrel. This will make the bend, gradual & smooth, rather then bent.
: If the barrel is visibly 'kinked' I'd be concerned. If I could live with it, revel in the fact you will be more accurate than one who can't hold his face close.
: A barrel like on a Bess, should allow sighting from the tang/breech hump, to the lug, and be on at 25 to 50 yds.
: The earlier the Bess, the easier this is to ackomplish as the barrels on the 1728's are over 1.4" across the breech, tapering to thin at the muzzle. This give a good eoevation at the rear, automatically. Most early Bess's allow grooving the rear of the barrel as a rudimentary sight.
: A small lump of steel can be soft soldered to the tang/breech junction to get the eye up above the rear of the barrel. It is more of a barrier & indicator for elevation to closely sighting down the barrel, than a sight. Anything projecting above the top surface of the barrel is considered to be a sight in the smoothbore competitions.
: Low front sight lumps help with elevaton problems. The lower the front sight, the higher the gun will shoot given the same elevaton at the rear, of course.

 

[musketman]

Though bending a smoothies barrel is acceptable

Barrels have been bent for a time, it's not new technology, one must know how far to bend it and take care you don't over-bend...

Also, one must learn which way to bend a barrel to bring the point of impact back to center...

:imo: I also think barrel bending should be viewed as a last resort...

 

[Jack Walker]

I don't think using military muskets is a proper example. These weapons were not made for "sighting" the barrel, troops were taught to point down the battle field ,turn thier head and fire. The "gentlemans rules" said if a man went down it was by the hand of God and not the soldier. Just a way to keep the men from feeling like murders.

 

The regime of shooting I read was of Marines and told them to aim and not fire too quickly as that would spoil opportunity to aquire a good solid aim at an individual. It said nothing about turning their heads, what we would normally call "Flinching".
: Do you have a 'quote' on this battlefield point and flinch technique? I am very curious of that.

 

[fatboy]

I am interested in who made this weapon if you could PM me with the info thanks

 

[Slowpoke]

People bend smoothbore barrel around here all the time. I really don't like the idea. Mainly because you are trying to make your smoothbore shoot like your rifle, they are two different animals. If you try to shoot your shootbore like your rifle you will never be as good a smoothbore shooter as you could be. Everything from your stance, forearm placement, grip, and sights are different when you shoot a smoothbore.

sP

 

[Deadeye]

I've bent lots of barrels but usually it's because the barrel wasn't straight in the first place and when you bend it your really just bending it back to straight. you can also move point of aim by moving the front sight left or right or shortning it to shoot higher. If your barrel is straight then it's your front sight and your eye placement that's at fault, not the barrel. I use a Tulle in competition and see no problem in the way the stock is shaped and Slowpoke I shoot it exactly like I shoot a rifle
(not sure why you think it's different)same grip, same stance, same hand placement and I've won just about every match I ever shot with it so it can't be all wrong.

 

[Slowpoke]

same grip, same stance, same hand placement and I've won just about every match I ever shot with it so it can't be all wrong.

I can't argue with you results then, good shooting. I shoot smoothbores with large large Queen Anne and Virginia locks. The "hammer shock" on those things is so that I have to hold the rifle way out in front and really pull it tight to my shoulder. Also take into consideration that a smoothbore weights less than most rifles with would make them harder to hold steady. I'm right handed, when I hold a rifle my left hand is almost touching the trigger guard. When I shoot a smoothbore it's as far as it will possibly go in the other direcion, this helps me pull it tight. If you hold your supporting hand well out from the trigger guard, I guess that would help you shoot it like a rifle. I just can't do it. Also, my grip seems to be a little tighter because I pulling it into my shoulder rather than with a rifle where it's not so noticable.
I'm in the process of building a 40 caliber smoothrifle with Oct/Round barrel, Cane trigger, large Siler percussion lock. I also plan on making a 1/2 inch cut under the barrel towards the breach and pouring lead into it to add about 2 pounds of added weight. I'm building to scrictly to shoot in matches, it would be a bear to carry in the woods. When I get it built, I'll have to come out your way and take you on! :thumbsup:

SP

 

[Deadeye]

Slowpoke, I shoot the rifle the same way you shoot the smoothie. Hand way out and pull hard into the shoulder.
Never could do that hand back at the trigger guard thing,
some places that's illegal if your arm rests against your body. I shoot the same way in matches as when I'm hunting
or shooting birds with a shotgun.
Get that gun built and come out to Ft. Bridger, Wyo. on
Labor day weekend, you'll have a ball.

 

[bob1961]

if so bent out of shape can you shoot around corners :crackup:....sorry couldn't resist....never heard of bending barrels before....but like others have said you shouldn't be able to see it................bob

 

[ploeg]

I have both a Tulle and a NW tradegun and shoot them both the same way, more like a shotgun,with my head up. Both shoot low if I try to use the back of the barrel to set my front sight on. It takes a bit of practice to judge how much barrel should be showing at a certain range, but with practice it works well for me. As far as bending the barrel, that might work for a certain range, such as 50 yrds, but will still be off at other ranges and you are back to the same problem. I have seen where a notch was filed in the barrel part way down to show the shooter how much barrel to show, but I haven,t done it on my guns for the same reason as not bending the barrel. If it shots right or left its easier and safer to just remove and resolder the front sight.
As for adding a peice of metal at the breach, its not allowed at most shoots, though I guess you could do it on a gun that you don't use in compatition. :m2c:

 

[Dave Poss]

I asked this question once before but it got lost in other posting. If a barrel is bent , how does it fit back in the stock again ? Seems like that if the barrel channel is inletted to properly fit the barrel, that if it's bent it would not fit correctly. :hmm: Inquiring minds want to know!.....or as my wife tells me : my mind was a terrible thing to waste!

 

[BLAHMAN]

I asked this question once before but it got lost in other posting. If a barrel is bent , how does it fit back in the stock again ? Seems like that if the barrel channel is inletted to properly fit the barrel, that if it's bent it would not fit correctly. :hmm: Inquiring minds want to know!.....or as my wife tells me : my mind was a terrible thing to waste!

That's a good question. I wonder if the barrel pins will line up or do they need to be re-fitted?

 

[musketman]

That's a good question. I wonder if the barrel pins will line up or do they need to be re-fitted? [/quote]

When you "bend" a barrel, the bending is minute at best, it doesn't take much to change your point of impact down range...

If the barrel is bent noticeably, the wood of the stock can be warped to fit if need be...

 

[Mad Irish Jack]

Like many previously have said, its been done since long time back. There are jigs for the process, and .....there are other methods, and there are...well....accidental corrections.
I have to tell this one. A fellow shooting pal of mine for a long time now, Doug Davis, of sw PA, says he'd done a professional evaluation of his Pedersoli Brown Bess. It was shooting where IT wanted and not where Doug wanted the ball to go. He says, "I just evaluated, calculated and then made a slight bore directional correction and it became the perfect weapon."; :hmm:end of statement.
::The TRUE STORY: About four months or so after Doug and I became friends, we were at his place, on his range, shooting for practice on a saturday morning. The bench was his picnic table in the yard. I'd just gotten my Center/Mark Tulle de Chase in .62 caliber and was trying to get the load for it. I used what Ray Woodall, of Center/Mark Inc., had suggested and it was the right recipe. :applause:
Doug had been reenacting for a good while but hadn't fired a live round in his Pedersoli Brown Bess .75 caliber to that date. He had gotten a mould and made some .720RB and was using a .015 patch on 75 gr of FFg Goex BP. After about 30+ shots and 6-8 wipings and cleanings and filing the turtle on the front top of the barrel, he had some heat waves :: coming off his thinning top knot. With all the adjusting, all the shots were low and east and west and... not in the 8" black circle. His teeth clicked and the language from the whole in his full beard made the countryside :redface: blush. Although, I was having a good charge from his reactions, as it was aggrivating for any shooter, he was Pi-----.
Then it happened. :shocking:He Snapped. He'd made adjustments, fired a round and was worse off then ever. He came off the bench at the end of the table with the Bess in his right hand, holding it by the wrist. He looked sky ward while quickly spreeding his arms out and yelling, :curse:"What the H--- is.."
That's all he got out, when there was this loud....."CLANG"! He'd swung the Bess around and hit the clothes post about top mid-barrel on the gun. :crackup:He wispered, :no:"Oh Sh--!" Now, he was serious worried. He saw a buffed mark on the barrel and upward bend to her length. After some thinking, some looking, a few snickers and two, worried, 25 yard sighting rounds fired. The ten X ring had ONE RAGGED HOLE in it. We both started laughing and slapping hands. :applause: :applause: Then he made that famous statement, "I just evaluated, calculated and then made a slight bore directional correction and it became the 'Perfect Weapon."; And it does shoot straight as you c'n hold her. :crackup: :crackup: :crackup:

 

[TANSTAAFL]

I have now read your post, seen there was a previous problem, and the barrel was intentionally bent. As well as using a dial indicator with a lathe or set of true vee blocks, another way to check for true is with light. Shine a strong beam of light down the plumbed level bore, to be focused true to a right angle flat surface, such as a wall. If on the wall, you get a true concentric circle of light, the barrel is not bent. If you get an out of round circle of light, it is bent.

Light has been used since days of yore to straighten gun barrels. I have seen old pictures of Pakistani cottage industry gun makers shinning a light down the bore of a muzzleloader barrel placed on two blocks of wood with the light exiting onto a piece of paper. They then had a pole (with a man standing on the short end) as a lever to bear down on the barrel to bend it straight. So it ain't exactly space age math or tools involved in barrel straightening, just a bit of common sense.