Bess load?

[riarcher]

Whats a good load for a Peder. Bess with .715 RB and snug patch? (0.751 bore)
I'm trying to remember but I keep thinking I was experimenting with 80-110 gr 2Fg. (Not shot in a spell)
Asking about gen'l all purpose hunting /target.
Thanks.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Think of loads in terms of drams, and remember that you are shooting, basically, a 12 gauge shotgun. A general load for the closer range shooting you are going to do with any smoothbore would be the 2 3/4" dram( 76 grains) of powder. You can use either FFg, or just Fg powder, if you want to reduce chamber pressures even more.) 3 drams,( 83 grains) and 3 1/4 Drams( 91 grains) can also work, but give more recoil for very little gain in velocity or impact. Remember that your ball is going to weigh about 1 1/8 ounce, which is a huge " freight car " to get moving. Its going to pass right through any deer you hit inside smoothbore ranges, which are more dependent on what sights you have on your gun, and how well you shoot those sights.

Find the distance at which your best load, ball and patch combination will let you put all the balls in a 6 inch circle, consistently. Then reduce that range by 1/3 to give yourself an allowance for " buck fever " or the jitters. Limit your shots on game to that yardage and you won't have any trouble taking home venison. If the truth be really told, Most White Tail Deer are killed inside 50 yards, and that should be within the range of your smoothbore and a good RB load.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Between the ranges to be shooting for hunting or for most targets, the load I like is either 3 drams of powder (80 grains) or 3 1/4 drams (88 grains). That is more than enough powder to be effective with a 0.715 ball. I have used 0.017" cotton drill cloth as patching. I use a lube of a mix of bee's wax and olive oil. You will have to clean the bore every couple of rounds to control the amount of fouling.

 

[Many Klatch]

My Bess Carbine likes a .715 ball, .010 spit patching and 90 grains of 2F. That load will put the balls in one big ragged hole at 25 yards. I have been happy with this load. I can shoot 20 or 30 times without having to clean. Yeah it gets a little gunky at the breech but it doesn't seem to affect the accuracy.

Many Klatch

 

[scroggwe]

OK, Paul, I'm confused here. Why would someone think in terms of drams? All of the powder measures that I own are in grains. In order to think in grams I would have to convert them to grains to use my powder measure. Why not just use grains and eliminate the conversion? Just curious. It seems kind of tedious that way.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Modern shotgun shells are still sold with a " Dr. Eq" designation on the boxes. It give you an idea of what kind of load makes sense, for old guns, which were loaded with Dram measures. Today, the little cup measures still have both dram and grain designations on them. Powder measures intended to be used in rifles don't, I grant you. That is why I gave both the dram, and grain equivalent loading data for the loads I suggested. I am not a fan of heavy loads in any of these large caliber muskets, bet they smoothbore or rifled. They rattle your teeth, bruise the shoulder and create a big flinch that affects your ability to hit about anything. And, they are not necessary, either for good accuracy, or for delivering enough powder to kill deer at BP ranges. 90 grains is slightly more than 3 1/4 drams of powder, and that is a heavy load, whether you are shooting shot, or RB. It can be justified in some guns for the pattern it delivers with certain size shot, but with RB loads, its just not necessary.

 

[Tinker2]

I’m with Paul on loads for my Bess.

With a good patched ball with 75 grains of 2f, I could not ask for anything better. It’s very accurate and I have not had any deer I shot at (so far) go anywhere but straight down.

I am not a fan of heavy loads in most any caliber.



Tinker2

 

[Britsmoothy]

One thing to remember is ball mass and obturation. I have witnessed a ball recovered that had obviously come out of the barrel resembling a cylinder! A .700+ ball has alot of inherrent mass that will not like a good kick in the pants with out wanting to change shape!
:hatsoff:

 

[J.D.]

IMHO, most folks recommendations are right on.

I suggest beginning with a charge of about 75 gr and work up to the most accurate load.

I also suggest using something approaching a .018-.022 patch with that .715 ball.

The most accurate load in my bess is a .718 ball, cast of anything that melts, .018 patch, and 80 gr FFG.

This load thumb starts and will shoot 3 inch groups, off hand, at 50 yards, on a good day.

I have shot everything from charcoal briquettes at 20 yards, to deer at 40 yards, with very good results.

Good luck,
J.D.

 

[pepperbelly]

Pedersoli owners can also look here for their recommended starting and max loads. The load you end up using will depend on your particular weapon. Each is slightly different and will like 1 or 2 loads that another weapon that is identical may not like.
Finding that load is half the fun.

Jim

 

[riarcher]

YA-FLIPIN-HOO!
I found my note book!
Last entry was 10-5-05. guess it's been longer than I thought.
Appears my best selection at that time was .715 RB, slightly(?) hard lead - probably a reclaimed mix, soft but not pure.
.025 Blue denim patch that I had bought 4 yds. of and melted Borebutter into with microwave to saturation. Also noted patches were used 5 times before any failure (must of been testing durability)
Also appears I was trying to determine on settling with 100 or 110 gr. 2Fg Geox as a charge.
Also was noted wanting to try 1Fg. if I could find it available.
Interesting notes:
80 gr & .735 w/ pillow ticking was disastrous for patch & accuracy.
3Fg gave me a troublesome very hard crud ring.
30+ shots on a flint before touching up was not uncommon. Remarked that 1 had 48 shots on it and still going when changed for a hunt (duck).
Never really satisfied with my shot patterns (I remember that well).

Funny thing is, this is the first gun I ever kept a Journal on. And boy am I glad I did!
One of the big helps at the time was a man called "Musketman" on this site. Avatar was the Scarecrow. Is he still around?

Thank you for the replies, appreciated.
Now to clean up my mess and get back to shootin :hatsoff:
Gary

 

[paulvallandigham]

If you will use a chronograph to measure the retained velocity at 50 and 75, and 100 yds, you will find there is little good reason to use loads as high as 110 grains, which is a 4 dram load! The Ballistics Coefficient of that large round ball-.084- is going to slow the ball down by 25% of the MV. I Don't have down range velocities for a .69 caliber or .75 caliber gun, But someone posted range and velocity results for a fast .50 cal. RB at 1900 fps. At 50 yards, 25% of the MV was lost. At 80 yards, 40% of the velocity was lost. At 100 yds, 45% of the velocity was lost.

Because the B/C for a .50 cal. RB is .057, vs. the .084, I doubt that the larger ball is going to do much better over those distances.

I do have some limited data on 12 gauge loads, and 89 grains of FFg gives a muzzle velocity of 1050 with an 547 grain load.( 1 1/8 oz of shot) which is close to the weight of a 12 ga.(.715) RB.( 549 grains)That is considered a " HEAVY LOAD" by the Hodgdon Powder Company folks, and I think that sould be tops for most any reasonable use. I don't have velocities for lighter loads, but any load that starts out below the sound barrier is going to be more accurate than any load that begins above the sound barrier, out of smoothbores, and Rifles. The rate of loss of velocity over the range is also less when the MV is less than 1100 fps.

 

[riarcher]

paulvallandigham

Think I've seen that info before and it is interesting.
But the "proof is in the pudding" is an equally interesting point.
Going back to my notes I see why I increased it to the point I was at.
Simply being, Consistant Accuacy.
According to my notes on this I spent a great deal of time and effort trying to get a 70-80 gr. load to work as I think they were considered common starting points.
As I think about this a bit, more and more of it is coming back to me.
I'm not disputing your information at all.
It just looks like I've tried them loads and found the heavier loads worked better in this piece for me (at the time).
When I get back out there, I'll retrace what led me to this conclusion and see what developes. If nothing else, if I see repeats of what I went thru before in the Journal,,, well, it'll just be "proof in the pudding" and may save me some frustrations. :hatsoff:
After all, everyone said the world was flat until Columbus failed to fall off. :wink:
We'll see.
Thanks. :applause:
Gary

 

[riarcher]

From the past; http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/...d/187967/post/205126/hl//fromsearch/1/#205126

(90-120 gr. 2Fg.)

Judging from their postings and having spoken with them, I considered them knowledgable sources.

 

[paulvallandigham]

YOu may have gas escaping down the barrel. Try using a OP wad this time and work with the same loads. I have a .62 Ca. Fowler, and the OP wads improved consistency for me, as well as actual velocity by about 200 fps. That has allowed me to get better accuracy with the lighter loads.

I don't doubt that heavy loads like you are using will work. I just don't want to shoot very many of them in any gun I have!

The other thing I found out about shooting " magnum " loads is that sometimes you get better apparent accuracy simply because the barrel time is shorter. That was my first lesson about shooting .38 wadcutter target rounds in a .357 Magnum revolver. When I switched to the magnums, my groups got smaller. I found the same thing later with my own .22 Magnum/22 LR revolver. And I find the same thing with my .44 magnum and shooting .44 spls. in it. the bullets get out of the barrel before I can move the front sight off the target by flinching, or whatever else I am doing.

The real lesson came after I fired lots of magnum rounds. When I went back to the slower velocity standard ammo, I shot those better, too. I later found that shooting rapid fire is a good way to learn to shoot more accurately, but after you figure that out, slow fire accuracy improves.

I am now convinced that it has everything to do with how you concentrate on your front sight, and not much with the velocity of the loads, or rate of fire.

 

[rabjr]

Welcome back Archer!

Not a Bess but my N.E Fowler with a .735 bore really likes 3 drams of 2FF Swiss a bear greased Fiber wad, .715 ball wrapped in a bear greased .15 patch. That load TKO'd two R.I deer this year. :thumbsup:

 

[riarcher]

That's why I'll be re-tracing my steps again. :hatsoff:
Nothing leaked.
May have been not holding right, or a possible multitude of things. (even 'tainted powder?)
Anything at this point is speculation until I get back to the range. And that has to be a weekday when the wind isn't blowing 30+ and preferably above 30 Deg wouldbe nice too. :grin:
Gonna be like starting over again. :applause:

 

[riarcher]

Rat,
Where you getting powder around here now days?
Last I remember the spot in Warwick (D&L?) was thinking of not bothering anymore.
I still have Bear Oil! :bow:

 

[rabjr]

Got a couple guys who when passing through Maine always ask if I need powder and will stop in at Kittery for me. But I think we're going to look into trying Graff's brand and going in together for an online order of 5 lbs in the spring.

 

[rabjr]

Lol, I got a boat load of render deer tallow too if ya want to try making up a lube with it, let me know. :thumbsup: