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Bess or French?

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flm_shooter

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I've a bit of money saved for a smoothbore. Just a bit, don't point me at customs.

So I served in the 7 years war, got out and started a family. Now I'm in a small town and joined the militia. Which MVTC would be better for me, the early bess or the 1717 French (both suitably aged). I'd like something he had left over from his earlier loyalist service.

Note: I'm a lone easterner with a beautiful flint rifle in the land of hawkens. I just want to confuse these folks even more.
 
I think you'll find that the 1717 French will feel more comfortable while shooting, besides its prettier!

Jester
 
The bess was the kings property,he'd have probably wanted it back when you were mustered out of your wartime unit. I'm not sure a militia man would have a bess when it wasn't war time.
The 1717 would have had to have been a capture from a wartime battle.
I'd probably go for the 1717 just because you don't see many of them around.
 
how about their new fowler? I have not seen one yet--is it old enough style to be a F&I War relic? You would have to make up a story about how you got the French (enemy) musket.
 
The 1756 Pattern Bess was still a state of the art military weapon right after the 7 Years War and as Mike pointed out the Crown would want it back. These were in service with British Regulars at the beginning of the Revolutionary War and with Loyalist units right up until the end.
Since Militia units required you to provide your own firelock a old captured French musket can work pretty well as well as add that non-cookie cutter look that will set you apart from all the Pedersoli Besses. I belong to an Revwar Unit that is early war and we have everything from a doglock to a a custom fowler in our unit and it works great(I carry a MVTC 56 Bess). :m2c:
 
I was looking at the 1717 model also, until I read at the Loyalist Arms website and elsewhere that the French "1717 Infantry model" was not used by the French in the new world. The French Marines used different muskets than the ground forces apparently. Although some folks say that the 1717 may have been sent over to the American forces as aid from France during the AWI. The 1690 French Marine Musket and the 1728 French musket were the options I was going to go with. I think the 1728 is the most elegant of all French military musket replicas available now.
Of course, then MVTC brought out that big bruiser of a Doglock Fowler and I bought that instead. I don't have to concoct any tales about how I aquired it, it's fairly generic, I was able to use all the molds/equipment I already had...and it does turn heads.
Jack
 
The problem is whether the French model 1717 was used during the Seven Years War in New France.From 1690 to the 1740's Tulle supplied arms to the Compagnies franches and the Army Model 1717 was apparently never issued to them Rather they would have received the Tulle Marine Fusil Ordinaire or Fusil Grenadier manufactured from about 1691-1729 and under a later contract from 1729-1741. After the 1740's the Ministry de la Marine increasingly ordered it's weapons from Saint-Etienne and these were similar to the Army Model 1728,"The French Soldier In New France" by Rene Chartrand,Historical Arms Series No.18,P.21
The Model 1717 was the first identifiable model in a series of muskets between then and 1763 when the Treaty of Ghent was signed ending the Seven Years War. These include the 1717,1728,1746,and 1754 but it was doubtful that many of the Model 1754 found their way to this continent before the beginning of the Seven Years War in 1754.,"The Military Arms Of Canada by The Upper Canada Historical Arms Society,Historical Arms Series No.1
Since by 1754 the Model 1717 was pretty much out of date and had not been issued to the Ministry de la Marine for it's Compagnies franches,the arms issued to them would have been the Fusils Ordinaire and Grenadier manufactured by Tulle which was very similar to the Regulation Models of 1717 and 1728.It's general design was somewhere between those two models.,"The Fusil de Tulle in New France,1691-1741",Russel Bouchard,P.28. The regular French Infantry would have had the models 1728 and 1746.
These muskets,1728 and 1746 were manufactured in great numbers by the Royal French Armories at St. Etienne, Maubege,and Charleville with about 375,000 being produced as compared to about 48,000 of the model 1717 and were contemporary with the British long land pattern Brown Besses and would likely have been the arms carried by the French forces in New France although in "Battle Weapons of The American Revolution" by George C. Neuman it is stated in the description under the Model 1717 that artifacts and restocked arms indicate the pattern's presence in Canada prior to 1750.With only about 48,000 of them being manufactured for regular French Infantry,it is doubtful that very many found their way to New France
The bottom line is that the use during the Seven Years war of the French Model 1717 produced by the Royal Armories at Saint-Etienne,Maubege,and Charleville is highly questionable and the more likely muskets brought home from the Seven Years War would have been the models 1728 and 1746 or the 1729-1741 Tulle Fusils Ordinaire and Grenadiers.I hope I haven't confused you too much
Tom Patton :m2c:
 
Whew.....and by using the MVTC Fowler, I didn't have to memorize all of that Tom! :)
Very informative though....thanks!
Jack
 
Well, I learn something new every day. I always assumed the '17 was widely used in New France since it was an older out dated model. :thanks:
 
French army generally renewed the guns every few years
the old ones going in storage for emergency .
One of those emergency was the siege of Qu
 
If I was to buy another production gun the looks of the french musket is highly likeable , its all in what you want isn't it, don't they also make that dog lock musket? that might be what you might also consider, or again the bess,I hope you enjoy what ever you decide on . bb75
 
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