Best kit for unskilled builder

[sharps54]

OK, I'll be honest I probably should have used "nimrod" instead of unskilled builder. I have little to no wood or metal working experience. I can read and occassionally follow directions. I will have my wife, who has some furniture refinishing experience and who can follow directions, on hand to help if I get desperate enough. I will be buying the tools as I go and it will have to be assembled on the kitchen table. So aside from obvious advice to wait until we buy a house I am looking for opinions.

I know you get what you pay for but for my very first kit what should I be looking at? I am thinking a factory kit (Lyman or Traditions, no Classic Arms thank you very much :grin: ) makes more sense then a "parts set" (TOTW, etc.) for my first attempt. The other thing is I would hate to turn a $750 parts set into a $150 rifle, I would rather turn a $200 kit into a $50 rifle!

I also am of the belief that if I am going with an inexpensive kit I am better off with a cap lock then a cheap flint lock. This will mainly be a range toy and I am not too worried about PC or any specific style, I just want the best thing to learn on.

So...
pistol or rifle?
recommendations on brand?
can I really use the LMF Browning in my bathroom without the wife killing me?
are there any "parts sets" that come with the holes all drilled / geometry already set up?

If there are "parts sets" with the hard geometry and drilling/soldering done I would be more inclined to look at them. I have also thought about a GPR flintlock kit and an extra full length stock from TOTW. That way I would have the factory stock to check the inletting by. If I did this I would buy it all from them and have them install the extra underlug before I start.

Or should I look at at Traditions Deerhunter kit, then move on to a GPR, and then if I'm comfortable go with a "parts set". Obviously the more I do the more I'll learn but is it worth starting with the cheaper Deerhunter and butchering that before I get the GPR kit? Or should I do a Lyman pistol and then a GPR?

OK, I'll stop asking questions and start reading answers :surrender:

Thanks in advance!

 

[huntman58]

HI I also am in your boat. I did my 1st and only build to date it was a CVA Kentucky rifle kit ( looks allot like the traditions kit by the way) This kit was built on a coffee table and then latter butchered on the same table .it was an easy build little inletting lots of sanding and one great shooter . Never did like the two part stock but some have left out the brass spacer and glued them together. I am now getting a stock for it that I will try to inlet and add some parts that I hope make an almost PO that is mine but I get to do this one in the bedroom at the computer desk no table this time .LOL. If I did it again I would get a Lyman gpr in 54 As there good kit and made for people like you and me. easy to build if you can read and use small hand tools and want a good looking great shooting kit with out all the work of master builders kits that need a big table. by the way for the finishing work get the wife to do it or send her out for a weekend and open the windows hmmm may be I should have done that o ya I was single so did not care

 

[cdg]

First, you should consider what I say, but not take it as the word of God. I'm speaking only from my limited experiences.

Second, I would recommend none of the above for your first kit. I'd look around for a poorly finished firearm that needs to be rebuilt or refinished. That way you take the gun most all the way apart and you can get an idea (more or less) how things should be put together. It's great training for when you build your first new gun.

I started out by buying an old Tower Pistol replica for less than 50 bucks. A lot of wirewheel, sanding, filing, and polishing later I had a very nice pistol.

I've never built a rifle, but you can get a pistol together on the kitchen table easily.

Whichever way you go, I would suggest buying a percussion lock pistol to start with. In general you should find it easier to assemble a percussion cap pistol. Flintlocks require that you pay much more care to the lock mortise, and are generally more frustrating to shoot. I wanted to start with a flintlock, but now that I own one, I'm glad I started with a percussion pistol first.

The only scratch assembled kit I ever bought was my brass derringer. It's the same little boxlock that Dixie sells for like 90 bucks right now. I paid somewhat less than that as it had been sitting in its original box for a very long time unassembled.

If you want a neat little display piece and a good stepping stone to get you started building (you'll need a propane or MAPP gas torch, files, sand paper, and a few very basic woodworking tools to assemble this kit). You'll also get a good idea as to how much patience it will require to build or rebuild a kit properly.

So that's about it. In summary, my vote is that you buy some used and slightly beat up projects and rebuild them.

Or perhaps a little boxlock derringer. Those are about as simple as rocks, and will require a good deal of patience and hand fitting (although not really a lot of trade skill in my opinion).

Barring that, my vote is definitely percussion cap pistols. Pistols because I'm partial that way (and IMHO they can be easier to handle in small spaces), and the caplock because it's less likely to prove frustrating to you.

Hope this helps!

 

[sharps54]

Thanks for the responses so far. Huntman58, I hear ya! CDG, some good food for thought. I should say that I do have a T/C Renegade, H&A Underhammer, a few cap and ball revolvers, and two "project pistols". They are a MVTC double barrel flint lock pistol I bought new that needs "fine tuning" and a Jukar flintlock Kentucky Pistol that I was given the other day that is rusted badly and missing a few parts. I plan on tackling the latter two before the kit. I guess at that point I will have some experience with the geometry of flintlocks (although any decent kit will hopefully have a lock that is good to go) and removing rust / refinishing a barrel.

From the responses so far it looks like a Lyman pistol would be a logical first kit once I am done fiddling with the projects I have. One of the reasons I am posting this is to help me plan things out in my mind and then sell the ideas to my better half who has to approve the expenditures!

 

[tecum-tha]

If you want a flintlock, make sure that the gun geometry is right for you.Especially your length of pull and the drop and the cast off. Usually the kits just follow a pre-given pattern.
I got me a .54 custom made rifle and it is a good gun,but has a little too much LOP for me. That`s why I usually pull it down shooting offhand. I tell you,for hunting this sucks.
Then I bought me a 99 Euro spanish .50 cal kit which was mostly some rasping and sanding,staining and finishing.I cut the stock to m LOP. Some brass polishing was there,too. A real good shooting gun but not as automatically pointing than a fitted one.
Still you should have a little workbench and the right tools. The work is dusty, so I don`t know about the kitchen. I would work outside,if I could.
You should buy a basic QUALITY tool set first, then start out. EL Cheapo tools will you give the cheap results. Especially a drill press is handy and difficult to do without.
I have my first Jaeger rifle from a TotW kit which I bought without the stock now in-the- white. I completely carved the stock out of a $25 cherry plank. And this rifle balances great. Just follow the gun making tutorial from MIKE BROOKS and use common sense.
I buildt a few cardboard gun profiles to check the geometry and then did a thin wood board profile model. It really helps to fit your gun.
Basically,it is almost impossible to mess the parts up and you can always restock.

 

[LRB]

I would suggest an "in the white" gun from Tip Curtis, or TVM. If you are set on building one, a kit from Jim Chambers.

 

[ApprenticeBuilder]

I would second the Chambers kit, 90% of the work is finished. His stuff is top notch designed for the guy like yourself or the builder that is mass producing his product.

 

[Allan Gray]

Chamber's kits are top-of-the-line, but thet do require drilling holes through the stock, drilling and tapping, and final shaping, not something one can throw together on a kitchen table...maybe too much for someone with limited wood and metal skills, but it would be a good way to "cut your teeth", if you take your time and have some guidance, (this forum).
A quality "in the white" gun was a good suggestion if you want to get a feel for how things go togaether and the finishing process.

 

[ian45662]

There may be a gun "in the white" in the classified section on this forum. Infact I am pretty sure there is

 

[cowpoke1955]

Sharps,
For an economical kit that is very easy to build and produces a good looking rifle, I'd go with the GPR. A file set, some screw drivers, a sanding block, 0000 steel wool and lots of sand paper. I bought a couple of cheap clamp-on vises from Harbor Freight to help with the barrel. We were staying at a RV park, while our house was being sold. My wife gave me a .54 GPR flint kit for Christmas from DNR Sports.. http://www.dnrsports.com/ . She wanted me to have something to do in my spare time. I did about 95% of the work at the picnic table outside the RV. I browned the metal with LMF in the bathroom of the RV. After applying the LMF turn the hot water on in the shower. When the bathroom was all steamed up I hung the parts up and closed the door. After a couplr of sessions the metal started to rust up real nice. The GPR has a walnut stock. Not a hardwood like the Traditions. Both Traditions and Lyman are straight shooters, but the GPR is more rugged, better quality and down right better looking. Since you have to go through the same building procedures for a pistol, I'd rather end up with a rifle. One that is not only good at the range, but very capable in the hunting field :thumbsup: .

 

[sharps54]

Thanks for all the comments (and the emails!) so far. I should say that I will be buying the various books and videos as well. I tend to be someone that jumps into something whole hog once I decide to do it. I also have access to a buddy with quite a bit of gunsmithing experience and all the tools (drill press, lathe, etc) but he is 3 1/2 hours south in NC so I can't run over there with every little problem. I guess an undrilled kit would be OK as long as I could do most of the drilling in one or two sessions. If I have to do a day of sanding, drill a hole, do a couple days of inleting, drill another hole, etc then I don't want to count on that as a resource.

So the plan now is to work on my "fixer-upper" pistols, buy the books and DVDs, and then move on to this project. Would you say the amount of work on a "in the white" gun is about the same as a factory "kit"? I know the "in the white" may come assembled but once I take it apart is it about the same, more work, or less work then say a GPR?

If they are about the same (or if the "in the white" is a tad simpler) then maybe I should look at that first.

 

[renovato]

I'd suggest going with a factory kit as your first effort. The price is right, and if it doesn't turn out just right, it's no big deal. Also, most of the work has been done for you, but you still get valuable experience in adjusting the inlets, final wood finishing, metal fitting and finishing, etc. The GPR is a great rifle kit to start with. Also, the Traditions pistols are good kits that require a bit of hand fitting.

The skills you pick up from finishing a factory kit will add to your confidence down the road if you decide to build a parts kit. I've built a few factory kits and I'm no longer hesitant to attempt a parts kit now. Good luck and let us know how it goes.

 

[sharps54]

Well one advantage of the Traditions Kentuky Pistol kit is that it looks pretty close to the old Jukar someone gave me (except the Jukar is a flint) and if I screw it up I'm not out much money. Nothing wrong with starting small. If he is interested I will be encouraging my 12 year old son to help, the Traditions wouldn't be a bad first pistol for him, especailly after he helped to build it. :hmm:

 

[cdg]

I think Jukar might still make the pistols for Traditions although I'm not sure on that as I don't own a traditions. Years ago they might have also made the sidelock pistols for CVA too.

Glad to hear you have some refinishing projects to start with. I love projects like that too since they're frequently so cheap and I'm so broke! :grin: The gun I shoot the most cost me about $30 and shoots really well. I experimented with a carborundum rod to smooth the trigger, and it worked out pretty well for me.

Another "food for thought" is to deliberately not refinish your projects perfectly - especially if you can't find a part or made a mistake in a non-critical refinishing area. My $30 shooter is only partially stripped of its rust and bluing to give it a "worn" appearance. Looks like this:

Now the flinter (below) I'm going to be shooting for perfection on, but you'll notice what I mean about my caplock. I found ScotchBrite pads work well for removing old bluing and rust, and won't deform the octagon like sanding can if you're not careful. The little boxlock derringer is the one I mentioned earlier, and has been aged artificially by putting it in my range bag and allowing it to jangle around a while. So far I like the results.

Just throwing the "aged" thing out there. If you make a mistake in a non-critical area, you might think of how you might be able to use that mistake to make the gun look worn or fired. Plus that always makes for a nice shooter gun that you don't have to feel bad about every time you pull that trigger.

 

[Old40Rod]

Rifle: Lyman GPR is a great starter. I have a caplock, but most of the folks on this forum like their GPR flinters.

I wouldn't mess with a CVA or Traditions kit as compared to a Lyman. You will likely spend close to the same amount of time getting things right, and IMHO you with end up with a better firearm with the GPR when you are finished.

Pistol: Lyman GPP or Traditions trapper.

Yes, you can brown things using LMF in the shower without causing too many problems with the wife. It doesn't stink too much or leave a mess.

 

[sharps54]

Looks a lot like the Jukar given to me, except mine is a flint. I posted some photos here of how it looked when I got it. I will start a new thread and post photos of the project as I go. I plan to strip down the metal (at least the barrel) and rebrown it, straighten or replace the front sight, add a brass nose cap and add two thimbles for a ramrod.

Old40Rod, I hear you on the quality difference. Now that I have been looking the Lyman pistol isn't much more then the Traditions in cost so I am leaning that way. Actually since the plan is to involve my son I probably go with what he wants to build.

 

[Old40Rod]

Whichever one you choose, have fun with it and post some pics!

 

[tr07416]

Hi 54,
I started with a "In the White" rifle before I tackled a TOTW kit. Glad I did because I then had a model to refer to for the challenges of the more difficult build. It also gave me a chance to see what goes together where, because I was new to BP.

If you are considering the production gun route, I shoot a Traditions PA that was my first buy and my buddy shoots a Lyman GPR. I would trade him in a minute. Good Luck with whatever you decide.
TR

 

[sharps54]

Thanks TR, I appreciate it. The main reason I was thinking about the Traditions (after I saw there isn't that big a price jump to the Lyman kits) is because I was thinking about doing it with my stepson. I figured a Deerhunter kit with a cut down stock and light powder charge would be great for a 12 year old and he can always just put a full size stock on it down the road when he finishes growing. That may still happen but not right now. I am going to restore the Jukar pistol I was given, then try a factory pistol kit with the boy. I am going to let him pick the pistol style so I don't know if it will be a Lyman or Traditions. After that I want to do a smoothbore "working gun" for me. This one might be in the white but at the moment I am leaning toward a TVM kit. After that we'll build a rifle for him.
I just bought a .40 flint "boys" rifle (26" barrel, 5 1/2 lbs) so he'll have something to shoot in the meantime. He doesn't have much upper body strength at the moment (as we found out with a 10/22 the other weekend) so we need to work on that. He did very well with my Browning Buckmark but didn't want to try the MVTC double barrel flint pistol.
Anyhow if I do a factory rifle kit for me I have pretty much talked myself into a .54 flint GPR with an extra full length stock from Pecatonica River. That way I'd have the factory stock to use for a guide.

 

[Steve Blancard]

Sharps54,

I'm in the process of building a .54 percussion GPR kit right now. You are welcome to come over and take a look at it if you'd like. Maybe that would help you decide.