Best lock for early Bean?

[SimonKenton]

It has been suggested that a Late Ketland lock would be more appropriate for an iron-mounted southern gun even though Hershel uses a LOT of what seem to be Chambers' Golden Age and Deluxe Silers. For a LATE 18th century, say 1790-99, wouldn't an Early Ketland fit in? Those were used on a LOT of locally produced fowlers and I am told that a lot of locks and trigger mechanisms, if functional in any way, were often "recycled" even in remote areas. I can see a hunter needing a new rifle and having the local smith or "gun cobbler" salvage some parts from a really old fowler or civvy musket to build a southern rifle and save some cash. Where these folks THAT practical or is it an old wive's tale?

-Ray ::

 

[SimonKenton]

TTT

 

[tg]

I have not studied these guns much but would think that an English lock would be better than the Germanic type...don't trust the "House" school of gun making if authenticity is your goal.

 

[SimonKenton]

TG,

I think you're right about Hershel. Not to say he doesn't craft a fine gun, but he has very particular ideas about what is and isn't appropriate. I don't care about hair-splitting so much any more. If it's your gun build it YOUR way. Ol' Hershel may not like this, but one gun I have a mind to build is a copy of the one on the cover of Book of Buckskinning 3. I could have Matt Avance build up one of his "early virginia rifles" with the "acorn" style iron patchbox, Davis early style "laid back" double trigger, MODEST carving and a Golden Age Chambers lock. Keeping in line with my rock 'n roll theme this would be The Big Bopper (.62 caliber "D" barrel) to go along with my own Long Tall Sally.

-Ray :RO:

 

Simon, Your Dollars, your gun, Your way, Long live Rock and Roll, and I mean classic Rock and Roll. and this is my 100th Post Bill Huzzah :redthumb:

 

[Donny]

Cruzin the gun auction sites, there are many oldies for sale made up of parts. If they say so, ther are probally a few others that they sell that were also parts guns, made way back then, or last week. Ennyhoo, I see trade smoothies with round tail flintlocks, so the roundtail has been around awhile. I think the sharp tail(germanic) locks were out of favor by 1800. Chambers site says the early Ketland was around till 1850ish, but the late Ketland was used before 1800. If memory serves, the Beans were the first gunmakers in s. mtn area, 1820 ish. I will throw my hat in with quote from the experts on M. Elliots site, "I have seen hundreds of s. mtn rifles, none had a germanic lock (Silar, etc)...(paraphrased). eace: ...Whatever..

 

[rich pierce]

round tailed English lock would be accurate style-wise to originals.

 

[Packdog]

Just to kind of back up what has already been said. Of the books I have, and few originals I have seen, All of the flintlocks have been of the round tail type with a rounded pan. Some have the small tip (SP I guess the site is blocking) on the rear of the lock but still not the Germanic looking lock. The number of originals that exist today must be a small part of the number of original guns made. So never say never.
I believe the Beans (Wm Bean) were in TN as early as the 1768 to 1769.
Packdog

 

[SimonKenton]

Packdog,

So for an older EARLY Bean that might have gone West about 1810-15 one could go with either the early Ketland for the really early ones or a late Ketland for the early fur trade era. As we all know long before Leman and Hawken started making guns expressly for the Fur Trade a host of different rifles and smoothbores went West. I suspect more than a few Golden Age PA rifles and early TN or NC rifles meandered that way too.

-Ray :m2c:

 

[Packdog]

For an Early Bean (1810 to 1815)I don't think the Early Ketland would be a good choice. It's more Virginia style prior to and right after the Rev. War as far as I know? and I have not seen another Southern/TN gun with a lock that looked like the Early Ketland. Your pushing the envelope on what I can answer without it being a WAG or just an Opinion. Maybe someone with more knowledge will step in with better info on Early Beans. Wm moved from Virginia so?
Packdog

 

[tg]

I think if one uses a lock or other parts that are earlier by a few decades than the time period of the gun it can be justified as a parts gun as such.....I put an early English round faced lock on a 1770 Lancaster gun just to break out of the Siler mold (plain gun, no frills)... I think there is one example of Haines, a very Germanic builder useing a set of English furniture on a gun.
The key is to not get to far out that it is past the point of plausible if you want to be PC.

 

[BLAHMAN]

It has been suggested that a Late Ketland lock would be more appropriate for an iron-mounted southern gun even though Hershel uses a LOT of what seem to be Chambers' Golden Age and Deluxe Silers. For a LATE 18th century, say 1790-99, wouldn't an Early Ketland fit in? Those were used on a LOT of locally produced fowlers and I am told that a lot of locks and trigger mechanisms, if functional in any way, were often "recycled" even in remote areas. I can see a hunter needing a new rifle and having the local smith or "gun cobbler" salvage some parts from a really old fowler or civvy musket to build a southern rifle and save some cash. Where these folks THAT practical or is it an old wive's tale?

-Ray ::

Those folks were that pratical. Quite often you will see this pratical re-usage of parts show up on all types of guns. If you have a chance, look through books such as "Accoutraments" (hope I spelled that right) and you will see a managerie of pieces parts used on quite a few rifles.

I wonder how many "gun cobblers" had a box of junk with parts of all sorts sitting in it waiting for use for the next broken gun or a would be customer? I love scrounging through "junk" bins at gun shows and other places...just don't know what you'll find.

Keep in mind, when they slaughtered a pig, they used everything but the squeall.

Have fun making your gun, I really wouldn't worry too much if what you do MUST fit into a certain mold created by others. Be creative and make something that stands out. :thumbsup:

 

[kentucky bucky]

I've got one with a Chambers Classic Ketland and like it very much. It has a little "teat" on the back of the plate that could be rounded of to a more English look. To each his own ....make yourself happy!

 

[tg]

I thought that you might be asking this from a historicaly correct stand point Ray, which does somewhat lock you into a mold of sorts that was set 200 years ago..they only used it if they did have it... I though someday I might make an authentic F&I period rilfe with all iron mounts.....mounts that were salvaged from European guns and documentable to the time period, I think this would be a good option for an early iron mounted gun, but then again I guess I could inlet an Altoid can into the stock as a patch box!...it would stand out... (VBG)