Best pan charger/short starter?

Any thoughts on a decent pan charger?

I'm also using a very tight patch/ball combo, and need a good short starter with cupped tips so that my .445 ball doesn't get distorted.

Would appreciate any recommendations on what's out there...

TIA

Tom

 

[JJB22]

Welcome to the forum.

If you don't mind me asking, what are the details on you rifle. Brand, caliber, patch thickness,powder you are using, etc.

As for a pan charger, many of use use a horn to carry only one powder with us. I started using a 3 grain push charger but it needed maintenance after twenty or so charges. It liked to start freezing up and when it hangs downward, it didn't take long for me to figure out the thing was empty. :cursing: I have switched to just taping a little pan powder from my horn or flask (depending on my rifle).

I made my own short starters for my rifles. I just take a ball and a 6 inch piece of push rod (caliber specific), concave the business end of it, drill the ball, and glue it together. I have seen bone, brass, and a number of other items used for the "ball" end.

Oh yea, Pics, Pics, Pics. That is the rule of the forum. :wink:

 

Thanks. .45 caliber Lancaster County, Green Mountain barrel, large Siler lock -- short (36" barrel), unusual nickel silver furniture.

Would love to post a picture -- is there a way to do that simply by uploading it? When I click on the image icon, it wants a url...

Thanks.

 

[Tom Compton]

Best starter I've seen happens to be a purchased item. Many make their own.
http://www.thegunworks.com/custprodgun.cfm?ProductID=473&do=detail&Cat2Option=yes

The piming device I use w/ 4F Unless I'm carrying one of my horn sets with seperate priming horn:
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Cate...atId=1&subId=11&styleId=37&partNum=FLASK-PP-3

To each his own.
TC

 

[JJB22]

I have a 45 cal too that I use a .440 ball with .015-.017 ticking patch. It seems tight enough. Just wondering if you are having an issue with the .445 ball and patch; trying to get the ball down the barrel might be/will contribute to a ball deforming. Have you tried a .440 ball? What is the thickness of you patches?

 

[hanshi]

The description of your rifle sounds exactly like mine. I've got a couple of bought starters from way back but nowadays make my own. I use a brass springy thingy for 4f but also do a fair amount of 3f from the horn. I shoot a .440 ball and .015 - .017 patch which loads easily and shoot accurately. Ease of loading in the woods is paramount. Any combo that's hard to load is of no interest to me.

 

[David Shaw]

I'm sure some on here would think me crazy but. I prime with 3F directly from my main horn. Also I use a ball and patch combo that I can thumb start and then use the wiping stick to run it down with. Course I'm not a dyed in the wool "shooter".

 

[ohio ramrod]

Here ( I hope ) are some pictures of the short starters I make. They are radiused on the end for caliber and have a brass bore protacter to protect the crown. They are solid brass and antler. Well most have brass bore protecters a few have a duralaun bore protecter ,white like ivory but not as brittle. Most have brass.

 

[Stumpkiller]

I whittle my short starters out of a single block of maple. Dishing the tip of the doweled section will protect the ball. Also, setting the ball sprue up presents a flattened face, anyway.

My pan shargers I make out of spent cartridge cases. Simple, effective, and if lost no big deal.

 

[Celt5494]

I use the same primer (but with fffg) and it works great. Never any problems with it. I have noticed though if you have a small lock it is a bit of a tight fit so a longer spout works well for a primer.

 

OK, so -- now that I think I have the hang of the picture thing -- I'll take it from the top...

First of all, here are a couple shots of my rifle.

Althought I've had her for a while, I am only now just getting to know her a little. My last range session involved shooting two 5-shot groups at my local club (Library Sportsmen's Association in Library, PA -- just south of Pittsburgh). I used 50 grains of 3F under patched Hornady swaged balls. I shot one group using .440 balls and what I think were .015" thick pre-cut patches pre-lubed with Wonder lube, and the same patches with the .445 balls, only I think these were .010" thick.

The front sight on this rifle is too high. Once I find my load, I'll file it down. In the meantime, since I wasn't on the paper at 100 yards, I shot these groups off the 50-yard bench (you can see from the results that the sights still shoot low -- even at 50 yards).

I still need to fool around with some different patching material, and have some pillow ticking I want to try. It's one big piece, so I'll cut these patches at the muzzle. Will likely lube it by just rubbing some Wonder lube into it.

Note that the group with the smaller balls was around 5-1/8" in diameter (I fired two fouling shots first), but the larger balls delivered a 2-1/8" group -- less than half the size of the first group.

After each shot, I wiped once with a glycol dampened patch, followed by a dry patch. I used the same flint for all 12 shots, and had one mis-fire.

The .445 balls were a tight fit with the patches I was using, and I suspect that the pillow ticking will be tighter still.

I have done a lot of shooting over the past 50 years or so, but not a lot of flintlock rifle -- so all tips will be gratefully received. I'm no longer a hunter -- typically just punch paper at 100 yards.

If any of you are into reloading for, and shooting, vintage [cartridge] military rifles, you may want to poke around my website.

Vintage Gunlore

TIA

Tom

 

[roundball]

I prime with 4F and have used the 3grn spring loaded plunger dispenser types forever, never have any problems with them.

The first photo are what I use for hunting, just tethered in a shirt pocket.

At the range I use brass ones (next photo) to keep from wear and tear on my hunting primers.
And in particular, I use the larger of the two brass ones because it holds enough 4F to get through a 50 range session without refilling it.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Tom: First try cast lead balls, rather than those swaged lead balls from Hornady. Many of the Hornady balls still available are made with the same lead they use for lead shot, which has antimony in it to harden it. These Swaged lead balls do not expand well to fill the grooves of your rifling when fired.

Cast lead balls will. Using Cast Lead Balls will shrink your groups. Notice how much better using even the swaged lead balls in .445" caliber, made your groups even at 50 yds. The Better the bore seal, the more consistent the MV is shot after shot. A smaller SDV correlates nicely with smaller groups.

Pure lead cast balls will also be much easier to start down the muzzle with a thicker patch, than those high antimony swaged balls are.

There was a recent post here indicating that Hornady may have responded to the criticism of its swaged balls by now using pure lead for these balls.

It would be nice to know if that is true, and what lot number indicates the change. I still have a couple of boxes of the high antimony balls from Hornady that I bought years ago on a "sale". My accuracy with my rifle dropped as soon as I began using them, after switching from the cast balls I had been using.

I recently began using OP wads behind the PRB, and that has helped, but groups are still not consistent. Unfortunately, all I have are .490" Balls for my .50- not .495". I still can use them for plinking, and shooting 25 yd. targets, and for hunting deer, but for target shooting at 50 yds. and beyond, the swaged Hornady balls leave a lot to be desired.

Make sure that your muzzle is crowned smooth enough that you are not cutting your patches on the front of the lands, and you should find that you are able to shoot 1/5-2" 5-shot groups off a rest at 50 yds. READ your spent Patches.

Good shooting, so far. You are correct to work on finding the most accurate load, before moving the sights, or filing down the front sight to raise the POI. Stick with it. Everything says this gun is going to be terrific. :thumbsup:

 

[Trench]

OK, so -- now that I think I have the hang of the picture thing -- I'll take it from the top...

First of all, here are a couple shots of my rifle.

Althought I've had her for a while, I am only now just getting to know her a little. My last range session involved shooting two 5-shot groups at my local club (Library Sportsmen's Association in Library, PA -- just south of Pittsburgh). I used 50 grains of 3F under patched Hornady swaged balls. I shot one group using .440 balls and what I think were .015" thick pre-cut patches pre-lubed with Wonder lube, and the same patches with the .445 balls, only I think these were .010" thick.

The front sight on this rifle is too high. Once I find my load, I'll file it down. In the meantime, since I wasn't on the paper at 100 yards, I shot these groups off the 50-yard bench (you can see from the results that the sights still shoot low -- even at 50 yards).

I still need to fool around with some different patching material, and have some pillow ticking I want to try. It's one big piece, so I'll cut these patches at the muzzle. Will likely lube it by just rubbing some Wonder lube into it.

Note that the group with the smaller balls was around 5-1/8" in diameter (I fired two fouling shots first), but the larger balls delivered a 2-1/8" group -- less than half the size of the first group.

After each shot, I wiped once with a glycol dampened patch, followed by a dry patch. I used the same flint for all 12 shots, and had one mis-fire.

The .445 balls were a tight fit with the patches I was using, and I suspect that the pillow ticking will be tighter still.

I have done a lot of shooting over the past 50 years or so, but not a lot of flintlock rifle -- so all tips will be gratefully received. I'm no longer a hunter -- typically just punch paper at 100 yards.

If any of you are into reloading for, and shooting, vintage [cartridge] military rifles, you may want to poke around my website.

Vintage Gunlore

TIA

Tom

That first target is the most amazing shooting I've ever seen. It's almost the spitting image of the Big Dipper. Do you shoot any other constelations? :wink:

Looks like you're rifle wants a tighter patch/ball combo. Try .018 or .020 with the .440 ball and see what happens.

 

Since you are in the process of working up an accurate load, I suggest you invest in Dutch Schultz's system. I found it well worth the money, but that is just MHO. You can find a thread from about a year ago, or just go the his web site at

http://www.blackpowderrifleaccuracy.com/

 

[Stubert]

Have you considered coning? I have a 62 cal that I bought used that is coned, It is a dream to load. Thumb start a ball down flush.