Best Quality Cheap Barrel ?

[illuveatar]

Would anyone care to suggest good "cheap" barrels?

I'm a young guy with a house and car payment. I'm also married with children.

For these reasons I cannot afford to spend $400+ to get a barrel, cut dovetails, install breech plug, touch hole ect. for a gun. I like the other Best Barrel conversation so far and have learned a lot about top end barrels but what about some info for those of us working on tighter budgets ?

I'm thinking more along the lines of getting a used barrel off eBay or at a gun show and using it on a semi-custom build. What do you folks think about the barrels used in CVA, Traditions, Pedersoli, TC ect. Also, what could one expect to pay for one of those Douglas barrels ?

Remember, I'm not interested in "saving up to get a really nice gun." I want a cost effective way to learn the necessary skills so that when I do make the ideal gun I won't mess it up.

 

[smokeum54]

stone wall creek outfitters has GM and rayl barrels for well under 200 bucks. ive shot both brands and they are both very good. as for barrels off of other guns i would suggest CVA. ive personally won more shoots than i can remember with CVA guns or barrels. but if you do use a used barrel be sure to inspect it with a bore light before buying.

 

[Zonie]

I am moving this topic to the Gun Builders Bench because it deal with building, not shooting.
Hopefully you will understand.

Now, getting to your question about inexpensive barrels:
In my opinion buying a barrel off of the Web is a foolish mistake.
In almost every case the barrel will be a POS despite the sellers claim that it has never been shot.

Seldom will you find a muzzleloading barrel at a gun show that isn't attached to a gun.
If you do find one with or without the rest of the gun attached, inspect it closely for rust in the bore. Rust on the outside isn't a problem but rust in the bore can be.

I suggest that you buy a cleaning jag for the calibers your interested in and carry it along with a few clean lightly oiled patches with you at a gun show.
Before buying a gun there, attach your jag to the ramrod and run the oiled patch down the bore.
If the pressure needed to do this is uniform and there isn't a lot of rust you've found something usable.
If on the other hand the patched jag suddenly becomes easy to push and then returns to the earlier force to move it the barrel has been bulged or ringed. Pass on it.

If you can find a complete rifle with a damaged stock and the rest of the parts in good condition it might make a good candidate for restocking with a pre-carved stock.
Just understand that the very old CVA's had very poor flintlocks before you lay your money down.

As for Douglas barrels, they are almost impossible to find in a new condition. They, along with Numrich and a few others also often had barrel runout where the bore is not centered with the outside.
I would say forget about them.
In my opinion they are not as good as a Green Mountain, Rice, Getz, Colrain or any other modern barrel made by a known barrel maker.

I know new barrels are fairly expensive but if you buy a straight octagon barrel they aren't totally out of reach for you.

Track of the Wolf currently is selling straight 36 inch long Green Mountain barrels for about $145. http://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/646/1

With that, you would have to buy a breech plug.
There going for around $10 http://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/659/1

Yes, you would have to install it and that can take some time with a good flat mill file but it is doable, even for a first time builder.

The sight dovetails and barrel underlugs would have to have dovetails cut but with a hack saw and a 3 cornered file (with one flats teeth dulled) that too can be done by hand.

The sights and underlugs will set you back another $10. http://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/880/2 http://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/874/1

If your building a Flintlock, you can choose to drill a plain touch hole and save the additional expense of a vent liner ($3-$4).

The bottom line? For about $160 (plus shipping) you will have a brand new barrel from one of the best barrel makers.

 

[rich pierce]

good work Zonie!

 

[Bill Hall]

In my opinion, Green Mountain, hands down. Not quite the premium barrel as rice, but still accurate enough to meet the challenges of the average shooter/hunter. Bore is not as good as Colerain, but the outside finish is far superior, and still less expensive. I use G.M. alot on my builds to keep the cost down, they shoot better than I can hold.

Availabilty is a problem, but it seems that problem is across the board with all barrels now. And G.M. prices just went up about a year ago , from around $105 (36"), to between $135 to $145. I think I just bought the last one from Muzzleloader Builder Supply on Monday :blah: , so don't try there.

Still, a good barrel for the price. Bill

 

[RHill]

I have taken old italian barrels and reused them, but I have access to a lathe and mill, the way some of them are breeched is not to my liking. You would be forced to use their locations for dovetails which isn't always the idea spot. As already recommended, the green mountian barrel is your best bet. If you don't have much money, you will learn this is not a cheap hobby. Building is cheaper then buying a flow-blown custom and better then any store bought TC, Pedersoli,....but still costs a lot and if not done correctly, will be a waste of money. There are three things you should never cut corners on, the barrel, the stock, and the lock. Without quality in those items it will show in the end, which is shooting.

 

The problem with some of the used barrels you propose to use, could create more problems, than saving a few bucks for a new barrel. Lugs, sights, may not be where they need to be, and you will be forced to learn how to cut dove tails any way. You didn't mention, but if you haven't gotten some books on building, They should be your first investment. "Recreating the American Longrifle" by Buchele, Shumway, and Alexander, or Chuck Dixon's 'The Art of building the Pennsylvania Longrifle", and when it becomes available again, Alexanders "The Gunsmith of Grenville County". Where in Michigan are you, I would be willing to help with getting you started, loan you some of the books. If you want PM me or email at billknappatcharterdotnet

Bill

 

[zimmerstutzen]

A used barrel is a manure shoot with the odds more against you than for you. Although, I have purchased at least a dozen guns on line and so far haven't been burnt. (Nor do I expect perfection)

CVA Barrels were darn good shooters (except the extremely early ones) and for a while CVA sold it's barrels for builders to use. Call Deer creek and ask what they charge for a barrel. (they have the old CVA parts stock)

One of the more accurate barrels I own, was an Italian made second. A cutter must have broken and the barrel is missing one of the grooves, yet it shoots very good for short distance offhand to 75 yds.

There are alot of barrels floating around on racks and in closets that were never breeched or built into guns. They come to the surface and can be a deal. I lucked into a lot of unfinished barrels a few years back. they had cut rifling but are 1.25 inches round. Bought six of them cheap, but they are far too heavy to build a reasonable gun. ( I am making one up right now as a chunker)

Green Mtn is about the most affordable new made barrel.

Every one in a while Dixie or Numrich arms gets some special deals. But as mentioned you have to watch the run out problem.

What are you interested in and I will see what I may have laying around.

In addition, buying a used gun in good condition just to strip is a possibility. While somewhat short barreled, CVA bobcats in good shape sometimes go for less than $100. CVA did have a good strong breech system.

Look around and keep your eye open at muzzleloader get togethers, etc.

 

[ohio ramrod]

My personal opinion (free and worth what you pay for it ) is that the Jukar barrels used on the later CVA's are accurate and safe.The older Dixie barrels were good as well Also many of the older Italian barrels were good barrels. Numrich arms barrels are a manure shoot , some very good others junk . The traditions barrels are safe and as accurate as most shooters. Just remember that trying to save a buck buying items you are not familuar with is in it self a manure shoot. Any of the major makers will be worth the many spent. Trying to save a buck is risky. :idunno:

 

[rafterob]

I have bought two barrels online. 1 turned out pretty rough, but good enough to shoot. I put that together with a stock and parts and sold it at a slight loss. That was a CVA. The second barrel was an old Euroarms Kentuckian, used but well kept. Built a flintlock out of it (total cost $200), great shooter. I have also purcahsed a Deer Creek replacement barrel for a CVA Mountain Rifle $110 3 years ago, Excellent barrel, very accurate. That price wasn't too far off from some other makers for a straight barrel but the Deer Creek was Breeched and included the nipple and drum.

 

[MSW]

Zonie's advice is, as usual, well taken. If you go to the web for a barrel you may well end up getting the short end of the stick, and this is something someone on a tight budget can't really afford. Whatever saving you might realize by buying a barrel from the electromagnetic ether will not, in my opinion, compensate for the risk of getting stuck with a bad compromise.

I've had good result from Green Mountain barrels every time. You might also take a look at Long Hammock, which have gone up in price but are still quite nice and are a good bit more accurate - they will group tighter than i can hold.

Good luck with your build!

(Should we warn him about the habit forming nature of building flintlocks? ... naah, he'll discover that soon enough)

 

[illuveatar]

I purchased a CVA Plainsman .50cal from a local gun dealer about a year ago, stripped it down and built it back up to my liking. It's now a flinter, with brass hardware, patchbox, browned barrel ect. The gun looks great from a distance but if you get too close you'll notice a few mistakes I made.

I'm nearly finished with this gun and I'm just beginning to think about my next flinter. I appreciate all your advise and warnings.

The wife and I just had a son born two weeks ago so I doubt I'll have much time in the near future to dedicate to a new build but I think I'll take Bill of the 45th's advise and get some good books.

By the way Bill, I'm a half hour north of Grand Rapids so we're about 150 miles away from each other.

 

[RHill]

Getting the books is the best investment for anyone wanting to build.

 

[Old Salt]

I have a small boy's rifle that is built with a reemployed CVA barrel. The barrel doesn't have any markings other than a serial number. It shoots as good as my GM or Rice barreled flintlocks.

I can feel the difference when loading but shooting is great.

 

[44-henry]

I can feel you pain as I have gone through all of that at some point. I would suggest that the barrel is not where you want to cut corners. Why not think instead of altering the style of rifle that you build.

Why don't you think of a Southern mountain rifle and start with a good lock, barrel, plain maple blank, and an assortment of pins, screws, etc. than make the rest of the components yourself. If you are frugal you could get all this for about $300 and have a very high quality rifle to show for it. If you lack the money than start by ordering a Track of the Wolf catalog and use the full size photographs they have and start designing your rifle on paper to figure out the part relationships. After that you can decide which parts you can make and start working on them before you order the other parts from TOW or other vendor.

 

[Tommy Bruce]

You can buy a colerain swamped barrel for around 200 bucks depending on what barrel lenght you get. They are already breeched. What type of gun do you have in mind to build??

 

[mattybock]

I've been reading into it a good bit, and I have resolved to simply make my own barrels with steel stock and some homemade tools, including a deep bore drill and lathe.
Seems that making your own ought to be the cheapest route possible, short of planting a derringer and selling the crop of revolvers which pops up in five minutes. :}

Also, while I have your ear hole, ever look into those straw bale houses. Great stuff there, and dirt cheap. Google it later.

 

[44-henry]

I have a feeling you will be buying a lot of barrel stock and ruining a lot of those drills before you succeed in making a good barrel. If the whole point is to save money you would be better off working a second job.

 

[ohio ramrod]

Back in the late 60's I was working as a tool grinder at the North American Rockwell plant in Hudson. ( I realise this is telling my age) and one of the engineers was into muzzle loading and we made him all of the tooling to drill, bore and rifle barrels. It was not a simple thing to do even with the equipment at our disposal. But then three hubdred years ago they did it with what what was available then! :idunno: :idunno:

 

[rafterob]

That works if you happen to have a lathe. There is an original Hay bale house from the 1860's not far from my Dad's hometown in ND. Still standing, and we've heard the rancher who owns the land recently restored it. My plains ancestors first lived in a sod dug out in ND.