Best way to drill the ramrod channel?

[Luzur]

Well, as the title says, what is the best (and safest) way to drill the channel and get it straight? ive used simple electric drill and moved it forward along the stock, but it is a very tedious and dangerous method, one slip and you made a very nice line where one shouldnt be...

Also should it be made before or after the stock has been fitted with the pipe/lock etc? last time i made a stock (the large pistol) i made the channel right after fitting the pipe.

 

[galamb]

Usually the ramrod hole is drilled right after the barrel is inlet.

(maybe because you aren't too far along if you really jigger it up and have to start from scratch - I have more than a couple "practice" stocks :grin: )

On a full stock rifle I cut the channel for the ramrod on my drill press. I have made up a (guide) jig to make sure I can feed it straight and I chuck a 3/8" cove "router bit" in the drill press and take a few passes until I have my 3/8" "semi-circular" ramrod channel cut in the front forestock portion, to the depth and (slant) I am looking for (achieved by attaching a shim to the barrel side of the blank since I'm usually looking for the RR channel/groove to follow a tapered or swamped barrel - a straight barrel is easier - nothing to shim).

I then use that "groove" as the guide (with a couple of blocks that have been drilled and cut, clamped in place so they form a 3/8" hole in two locations to act as "drill guides".

This keeps my 48" long drill from "wandering" too badly and I drill with a cordless drill (better speed/stop control than most "plug in's").

I drill an inch or so at a time, then back the drill out to clear chips etc - helps keep it "true".

(for a half stock I have made up a "faux forestock" that I jig up to guide the drill - so the same as a full stocked rifle).

Some cut the forward channel with a router and yet others use a gouge or rounded scraper.

While there is dedicated ramrod drill bits out there (TOTW, MBS to name a couple sell them), or others weld a standard drill bit onto a piece of rod, I use a shipbuilders bit (which is like a really really long auger bit) - why, because I also build wooden boats and have the bits and am comfortable using them when boring through thick pieces of wood.

 

[kaintuck]

Old way: Mark and cut with xacto, hog the wood out of the channel with small chisels and then round rasps .....then drill the hole.

New way: clamp my 2 flat bars onto the stock with the width and height adjusted for the 3/8" round bit.....screw the down, route it with my little trim router....unscrew everything....cut the excess wood off with the screw holes in it....then drill the hole.

My elbows and hands like the new way......both ways take about 2hrs to do.....the old way is quieter......

Marc n tomtom

 

[Luzur]

Both Your suggestions and kaintuck's sounds like good advice, i may try that in my next project, but what about the part that goes into the stock? (Not sure what the end is called but the bit where the ramrod goes into the lock part of the stock.) in my first rifle i simply drilled on and put in a big piece of metal i made into a O shape and then hid that with chemical wood, but i wasnt very proud of the work...

 

[gland]

While there is dedicated ramrod drill bits out there (TOTW, MBS to name a couple sell them), or others weld a standard drill bit onto a piece of rod, I use a shipbuilders bit (which is like a really really long auger bit) - why, because I also build wooden boats and have the bits and am comfortable using them when boring through thick pieces of wood.

Graham
Do you use a barefoot bit, or does it have a tapered feed screw on the cutter end? I've been taught that a barefoot bit should be used on endgrain so as to run straight, but this is the first time I've heard of anyone using a 'shipauger' on a RR hole.

 

[19283]

I bought the bit that TOW sells.

I do not recommend this bit at all. It's not sharp, and it's hard to sharpen, and won't stay sharp. I did everything right, and the bit strayed off course almost immediately and ended up punching a hole in the belly. I believe you need a brad point bit for the purpose of drilling into end grain. Muzzleloader Builders Supply sells them, or you can make your own.

That's my two cents. Also, keep in mind, I am a rank novice, so my advice is worth what you paid for it :rotf:

 

[crockett]

I've only done this a couple of times but I'll share my method. On a blank stock I inlet the barrel. I then form the ramrod groove. I take a block of wood about 4" long and drill a 3/8" hole in that and saw it in half. Each half gets clamped over the ramrod groove- spaced apart. The blocks hold the drill in alignment.Then I start to drill. Don't "push" or force the drill as it could flex and wander off course. Every 1/4" to 1/2" take the drill out and remove the chips. Every 8" or so drill a "test" hole (3/32") from the bottom of the barrel channel to the drilled ramrod hole. Mark a center line on a wood dowel and run that into the hole. You can see from the mark if the drill is going straight or off to one side. You can also make a depth gauge (screw in a block of wood) and measure the depth to check any up or down wandering.
So far what I have done has been okay. If a drill wanders I don't know how to correct, what I was planning was if it did wander, to then route out the channel from the barrel inlet.

 

[JackP]

I did mine exactly like crockett and it came out dead on the money. Drilled 13".

I made my bit out of a 48" length of 3/8" cold roller steel. cut a v notch in it 1 1/2" long and silver soldered a tiny piece of high speed steel in the notch for a cutting edge.

I think the short notch works better than the long knotch like the ones from tow. You can't drill far at each go but it goes straight.

Jack

 

[Col. Batguano]

If the bit is wandering, couldn't you adjust this by bending the stock (with a shim or something as you are drilling further), which would encourage the bit to resume more toward it's intended course?

 

[Rifleman1776]

It can't be done. :shocked2: I know, I have tried. :wink:
Actually, from those who are good at such things I have been told an old fashioned spoon bit on a long rod is best.
I once saw a documentary about how bag pipes are built. The drill through ebony wood. Very expensive stuff to mess up. The documentary did not give a good view of the actual drilling. I wrote to the company for information on how they did it and what bits they used. I was informed that is very secret proprietary information they would not share.

 

[galamb]

Sweed - mine have the tapered screw.

I do get a "bit" of wandering, but nothing severe (any more).

After horsing around with them before I actually put them on a rifle, I found by supporting the drill bit in two locations (drilled out blocks in two places about 4 or 5" apart in the ramrod channel, and then held in place with C-clamps) stopped the drill from wandering much more than 1/8" from true.

But I do drill in short spurts - usually no more than an inch or inch and half at a time, and then back it out to clear the chips - that tends to "restart" the screw tip "every inch".

Like I said, I had (have) a whole set of 48" ship augers (and they weren't cheap), so I was pretty determined to make them work for my RR holes as well.

On an occasion or two I have "caught them" trying to wander - immediately recognized by a tell-tale "squeak" caused by it running "wonky" in the hole.

If that happens I stop drilling, get out the round rasp, relieve the hole a little and carry on.

 

[crockett]

Correcting a wandering bit- I'd like to know how to do that. The first build I did was a cheap kit where the rearward 3/4th's of the bottom of the barrel channel was routed out for the ramrod,(the kit came that way) the actual hole for the ramrod was only about 4" from the nose cap into the stock. I think that weakens the stock. BUT, if it is expensive curly maple and the drill is off, then I'd rout out the bottom and maybe epoxy glue a bridge in after the ramrod is set up correctly.
I think if you clamp the drill correctly and don't force the bit, and keep cleaning out debris- you ought to be okay. Make sure the ramrod groove is just 3/8th" so the drill is tight and that the groove is in line lengthwise, side to side and up and down. Definitely drill the check holes.
On a lot of this type work, proper set up is everything, such as drilling pin holes for tenons. The drilling is easy if you set up correctly.

 

[inthex]

Seems like I read something in Muzzleloader magazine by Peter Alexander about drilling the ram rod hole first. Then inlet the barrel. Drill a small hole from the barrel inlet to the ram rod hole to gage the distance.

 

[Rifleman1776]

This is what I meant by a spoon bit.
I have been told ("told" not personal experience) by a master builder they will not wander. Looking at his work, I ain't gonna argue.

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[Luzur]

This is what I meant by a spoon bit.
I have been told ("told" not personal experience) by a master builder they will not wander. Looking at his work, I ain't gonna argue.

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where can i find one of those? are theysimply called "Spoon bits"?

 

[crockett]

It looks like an antique bit by the tapered and squared shaft- the kind put into a hand auger type drill. The spoon bits could change angles and were used to bore a slanted hole- like those on the underside of tables. You started at a 90 degree angle and then once a small depression was formed you could slant the drill and continue at an angle.
The other day I saw an antique drill PRESS. I never saw one before. It had a table like a modern, free standing drill press and there was an arm that slide up and down but the drill was turned by hand rather than an electric motor. You could do very precise work but I don't know the age of that type tool. Maybe someone does. It would explain a lot as I to date can't figure out how some precise drilling was accomplished, like the blade rivet on a pocket knife.
Getting back to the issue, that makes sense to drill the hole first and then inlet the barrel to match. I never thought about doing it that way. There may be something I've overlooked so if there is a reason it wouldn't work- hope someone chimes in.

 

[bpd303]

The antique drill press you saw was more than likely a Blacksmith post drill. I have one in my forge and they are interesting to use. Mine is a Champion like the first picture here. It has an auto feed that will advance the bit one - three clicks on the upper ratchet. http://www.beautifuliron.com/thepost.htm

 

[Zonie]

If you like Roy Underhill or even if you don't, follow this link to his show about old drills and drilling.

The spoon bit is right up at the beginning of the show.
http://video.wpt.org/video/2365004978/

 

[bpd303]

I watch him on PBS always has good shows and information.

 

[Luzur]

this is how i do it usually (i've only built two guns sofar..)

the rifle was the hardest one to make, had to drill the hole larger to get the drill far enough in, and later fix it up with chemical wood, and with the pistol i was able to lay the drill almost horizontal since the stock was short.