better patterns with 777 than Goex

[RayJ]

I've been doing alot of shooting lately with my Pedersoli 12ga just trying to see what it can do.Yesterday,I was shooting patterns at twenty yards.I was mainly shooting Goex black powder just trying to find a good combo for ducks.I know patterning should be done at a longer distance but I was wanting to see 20 yard patterns.I had been shooting 80gr-90gr Goex with my full and Mod chokes and decided to try some Triple 7.I put in 70gr 777,a nitro card,a felt wad,1 and 1/4oz #6 lead(will use #6 ITX for ducks),and an os card.My patterns were tighter with the 777.I only shot a couple shots with it because I really want to use the real stuff for ducks but I was just surprised how good the pattern was.The only problem is that 777 has a very slight hangfire and that would affect lead distance on ducks I'm sure.The Goex fired great shot after shot.If I could get the same patterns with Goex,I woulod be a happy camper.I managed to get some good patterns with 80gr Goex and 1 and 1/4 oz shot but I would like the same pattern as the 777.Does anyone have any idea why the patterns were so good with 777?I guess it might not be the powder itself but the amount could have been just right and I need to find that with the Goex.I know your supposed to use 20% less with 777.I was using a little less powder than shot with the Goex and had respectable patterns but not as good as 777.

 

[nit wit]

Try a duplex load with a little bp in first.
Nit Wit

 

[RayJ]

Are you saying to use 777 but put a small amount of black powder in first to help ignition?

 

[jamesthomas]

Yes, you can try a little 10grns? of Goex then the 777, but from my reading I see that most folks are using more shot by volume? than powder. I don't have a smoothbore but one is on the wish list so I read here a lot. The experienced guys will be on later cause its only 8:00am Central time. Time for a refill on the coffee!!.

 

[azmntman]

I use 10 grains 3f goex then the rest 777 and works great every time.

 

[BillinOregon]

Ray: Another solution is to change out the nipples for musket nipples and use the big winged caps. I generally did this on all the Pedersoli SXS guns I have played with and it eliminated any hint of hangfire no matter what the fuel.

 

[BrownBear]

Does anyone have any idea why the patterns were so good with 777?

Guns like what they like. When you find the combo, pat yourself on the back and use it.

Never tried Trip7 in a shotgun, but I used Pyrodex for many years with complete satisfaction.

I agree on the suggestions to use a little Goex in a duplex charge to get rid of the slight hangfire. I couldn't abide even a slight hangfire, but I could abide the nipple/cap switch even less. I'd certainly try the musket combo to earn how to use it (and keep a supply on hand against the day I had trouble getting standards), but in our area standard 11's are much easier to locate.

 

[Lorne Johnson]

As is often the case, I'm going to line up with Brown Bear. I started shooting a Pedersoli SxS with 777, and at moving targets it was a disaster (I found that the "slight delay" was not really consistent). Switched to BP, and shooting was actually fun.

A duplex load should help, as suggested. (Not what I want to be doing under pressure in a damp blind, but it should eliminate the delay.)

What Goex are you using? Brown Bear reports significantly tighter patterns with Fg. That's where I would go first.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Guns like what they like.

Right on, Bro.
Even though we may talk like it, there are no absolutes in this game. (safety issues excepted)
Guns like what they like. Even supposedly identical guns might perform differently.
The real secret is in how you hold yer mouth. :shocked2: :wink:

 

[Britsmoothy]

Yer know what....I gave up patterning years ago!

Just when you think you have the magic combo the next time you check it's not so good!

I just make sure the wadding is in oil and it's mass is fragmented and load more shot than powder.

Oh and the gun fits and shoots where I am looking!

B :hatsoff:

 

[RayJ]

I'm already using musket nipples and caps.They are much better for igniting 777 but still a slight hangfire.I will try 10gr black powder under 60gr777 and see how it goes.i'm going to drop a few grains on the Goex and see if that helps.I would really like to have both shooting well.I know one thing,finding a right combo is time consuming.I need to get loads for prb,#6 lead #7 and 1/2 lead,#4 and #6 ITX,and possibly #2 steel.How much speed is lost by dropping powder charge?I still have to be able to kill what I'm shooting at.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Not much speed is lost at all....I tend to think of it as gas production limitation! With to much BP the huge volume of gas goes along way to `blowing` the pattern.
Many folk get all hung up on power and speed....your an archer....you know the difference from a trad bow and a wheelie bow! They still get the job done though don't they!
Shot from a shotgun works on an accumulative effect so worry not Sir :thumbsup:

B.

 

[RayJ]

You are right as far as bows go.I shoot both traditional and compound.If I go down in powder charge with Goex that may tighten up my patterns.i really don't want to have a bunch of wads over powder because of time constraints when ducks are flying well.Anyway with screw in chokes I should be able to get good patterns if I work at it long enough.

 

[Britsmoothy]

1&1/4oz and less powder.

3/4oz and less powder. 12-25yards.

Homemade shot.



B :thumbsup:

 

[RayJ]

Cool.Great pics.Thanks for posting them.It gives me more confidence.What kind of birds are those?

 

[jamesthomas]

Its a nice pheasant and a limit of doves looks like to me :hatsoff: I have a hard enough time on doves using a modern shotgun :surrender: .

 

[Wes/Tex]

Absolutely love your pictures Brit, especially ones with Phydeaux...yes, I know it's not doggie's name, I'm being daft! It's the thought that counts. :wink: :haha: :thumbsup:

 

[Wes/Tex]

Ray, you might consider slightly changing the Geox formula to 70 grains powder and 90 grins (volume equivilant) for shot. Think you'll find it sufficient for ducks, certainly those over decoys. :thumbsup: A little heavier shot over powder rate will usually tighten up a pattern...though all guns can be temperamental and each one can be it's own little world. Part of the humility-training process! :haha:

 

[Leatherbark]

I would experiment with some 1F black to see if I could duplicate the pattern. I use 1F in my old British double and it really evened out the patterns for me.

11 guage
70 grains 1F
nitro wad
lubed cushion wad
1-1/8 oz shot
overshot card

Bob

 

[RayJ]

I am going to try reducing powder charge.70 gr seems like a good starting point and the 90gr shot is about what I'm shooting now.Since I can change chokes,it should be easier for me to get good patterns than someone who has to do it with a cylinder choke.