Big Problem with TC .54 cal Barrel

[OhioHunter]

I sighted in my TC Renegade .54 cal for Ohio deer gun season. Opening day was a wet raining soggy mess! When I got home I removed my barrel from the stock to give everything a good cleaning and get all the moisture out. Once I removed the barrel from the stock I noticed my big problem. The belly of the stock is charred right at the appointment where the wedge goes through the underlug in the barrel. It looks like there must be a crack in the barrel where the underlug goes into the dovetail. I think may be it is too thin there? Hopefully these pics will explain it a little better. The underside of the barrel is even starting to corrode from resting in the black powder residue. I contacted TC/ Smith/Wesson today to see what they thought. Even though the Renegade is out of production, they would like to look at it anyway. I dont know if they will do anything or not, but I figure what the hell, cant hurt. Really sucks because I shot 5 maxihunters out of it and it grouped the last 3 shots at 2.5". Now I fear it may be a widow maker!

 

Ohio,
It seems pretty unlikley but the only way that burning could occur is if the dovetail for the barrel underlug is cut through to the bore and flame is coming through upon firing. Should be easy enough to determine if that's the case by removing the underlug.
Mark :hmm:

 

[buttonbuck]

worst case is clean the barrel after removing the underlug, I would notch a wisdom mark to line it up the way you found it. I fgure water will shoot out like a squirt gun. I would wager judging by the flash rust on your barrel that is bluing not charred wood? is there soot on the wedge pin?

 

[roundball]

Send it in...T/C will give you a brand new barrel for free...they don't want the libablity risk of having a barrel out there as you described it

 

[OhioHunter]

There was soot on the barrel around the right side of the dovetail and the underlug. That was the first place I looked because I have never seen this happen before. Smelled like soot and moisture from hunting in the rain.

 

[tom deinek]

Duct tape.

________

I feel for you. Unusual amount rain here & just found one of my favorite flintlocks soaking wet where it was hidden in basement.

 

[Zonie]

Ohio Hunter:

I agree with roundball.
Don't remove anything! Leave everything exactly as you found it and return it to TC.

Messing with the barrel or the underlug would be like messing with a crime scene. You don't want to disturb the evidence.

I'm sure TC will figure out how to give you a brand new barrel for your gun even though it has been out of production.

 

[ebiggs1]

Don't remove anything! Leave everything exactly as you found it and return it to TC.

This is very important. Do exactly as Zoine advises! :thumbsup:

 

[Rifleman1776]

Yes, a barrel leak. Scary.
Do send back. TC will make good.

 

[OhioHunter]

Update- I have called TC 3 times since sending them my Renegade the first week of December. As of Monday 1/9, they hadn't even looked at it. I called them back on Wednesday 1/11 and they said it had been shipped out was on the way back to me. What?? I asked them how it got done so fast since as of Monday they hadn't touched it. They couldn't even tell me what was done to it, just that it was on it's way back. A C/S rep finally called me back on Wed. afternoon per my request and told me that they looked at it and nothing was wrong with the barrel and it was on the way back. So, do I send this barrel out to be xrayed or magnafluxed and fight with TC over it some more or cut my losses and buy a new barrel from Green Mountain? I am not real confident that TC even tested the barrel, but I can't imagine them being stupid enough to send back a barrel that could blow up. Any advise??

 

[roundball]

If they return the same barrel and it still has that leaking problem, send it right back to them immediately.
And this time escalate / ship it directly to T/C's Service Manager himself with a firm memo included.

Don't write a big wordy essay, just net it out...including statements to the effect "its obviously defective, it obviously unsafe, and it's obviously not a barrel that responsible T/C and S&W executive management want the liability of being used by the shooting public"...etc...you get the idea.

Regular folks in T/C's service dept were never all that great as far as I'm concerned...and after a barrel incident way back in the 90's that was handled poorly like yours, that was the last straw for me and I never dealt with them again...I only dealt directly with the Service Manager...sent everything directly to him by name, signature required.

Don't call ahead or try to be Mr. nice guy...just send it, document the facts firmly, and make it absolutely clear you're a very dis-satisfied T/C customer.
The closing statement should be:
"Do not send that barrel back to me again...if Thompson Center and Smith & Wesson can't/won't fix it then just throw it in the trash".

 

[mr.flintlock]

One thing you might try is to place a piece of tissue paper between the area of the barrel in question and the stock and fire the rifle and see if it scorches the paper. Take pictures of the process and if it scorches the paper return the rifle to T.C with an explanation of the problem and include the pictures to show them the problem.

 

[ron ward]

i don't know if i'd chance firing the gun again to see if it's leaking... that sounds like inviting disaster!... :nono:....i can't believe some-one would tell you to shoot the gun again!!!
fill the barrel with a good penetrating oil and stand it up near/in a warm spot in your house for a few days. if it has a crack, the penetrating oil will migrate to the outside of the barrel and you'll know for sure. then empty the barrel and send it back with a note drawing attention to the spot and the process you used to investigate the leak. the worst is that you will miss the season, if there's no leak, you miss the first couple days. either way, a small price to pay for keeping all your parts.

 

[2172]

they could be that stupid. Ibought a pawnshop T?c a couple of years ago, and when I took the bbl out of the stock noticed the breech plug swinging loosely. I sent it back, and got the thing back in the same condition..on Roundball's advice I called someone there, a supervisor..and he asked one of the guys why it had gone back unfixed. and he was told "I dunno" and the super had me send it back. got a nice bbl back, blued and such, but I was charged about %80..and since I had two shipping costs, I guess my $125 "buy" cost me about $225 still worth it. aybe round ball can tell you who to phone there..good luck hank..I would not shoot the bbl you got as is.

 

[Rifleman1776]

If they return the same barrel and it still has that leaking problem, send it right back to them immediately.
And this time escalate / ship it directly to T/C's Service Manager himself with a firm memo included.

Don't write a big wordy essay, just net it out...including statements to the effect "its obviously defective, it obviously unsafe, and it's obviously not a barrel that responsible T/C and S&W executive management want the liability of being used by the shooting public"...etc...you get the idea.

Regular folks in T/C's service dept were never all that great as far as I'm concerned...and after a barrel incident way back in the 90's that was handled poorly like yours, that was the last straw for me and I never dealt with them again...I only dealt directly with the Service Manager...sent everything directly to him by name, signature required.

Don't call ahead or try to be Mr. nice guy...just send it, document the facts firmly, and make it absolutely clear you're a very dis-satisfied T/C customer.
The closing statement should be:
"Do not send that barrel back to me again...if Thompson Center and Smith & Wesson can't/won't fix it then just throw it in the trash".

Yes, do as RB suggests.
But, on a few occasions when I had similar problems, at the bottom of the letter I would add CC: to every sort of consumer protection you can find. Not just Chamber of Commerce and BBB, but the Attorney General of your state, their state, major media, gun publications, etc. You do not necessarily have to actually send these letters but it will make an impression. When I do send CC letters, it usually is only to the Attorney Generals. That always gets attention.

 

[necchi]

I don't think the pictures we have and the info/background of the rifle care is enough to determine if there's damage or not.
I have seen that knid of mark in a stock before from the wood degrading and not as "char" from burning. The rust at the tennon can be from common water metal contact, that "metal rust" aka;iron oxide, can quickly do funny stuff to wood.

IF, T/C cleaned up that rust and calls the barrel good,, I'd be doing just like mr.flintlock said.
Judisious placement of a clean white peice of paper at the area in question and shoot it with mild then increaseing load increments until I surpassed my prefered load.

Any "leaking" barrel is going to show some kind of damage or area inside the bore for the leak to originate from. A bore scope will quickly show that spot. I can't beleive T/C wouldn't take the quickest and simplest action of looking inside the barrel with a scope.

As far as Monday nothing and then Wednsday shipment? I see nothing unusual about that, those gumsmiths get paid by the hour, the Tuesday work order for an inspection isn't going to be an 8hr job.

 

[Prairieofthedog]

Ohiohunter,First I would do as a previous poster said,plug the barrel ends and fill the barrel with liquid.Lay the barrel flat and you should be able to see a leak if you have one.When I first saw your pics of the barrel and stock it looked like a wet stock that had mildewed,looking again it sure does look like soot.If leaking send back with the stern letter demanding no less than a new barrel.When safety issues are at stake these companys usually do not mess around.If it does have a leak I can't believe they sent it back.S&w must not worry much about liabiliy!!P.S.Thompson Centers service for traditional muzzleloaders is about done or will be in the near future.

 

[Prairieofthedog]

I forgot to add let us know what you find out.Thanks.

 

[BrownBear]

I've stared long at hard at your photos of the barrel and stock, and finally pulled the barrels on all my TCs. One of them looked much the same and raised the hair on the back of my neck.

Then something occurred to me. That particular barrel/stock has always been a little tight fitting when I remounted or removed the barrel.

I looked closer, and what I see on your barrel that you're calling "corrosion" was on mine too, but in fact it turned out to be wear. And the corresponding black on the stock was nothing more than bluing that got transferred there by rubbing on the barrel.

I lightly relieved the blackened areas in the stock (think "inletting black") and put the barrel back in. It seated much easier, like all my other "normal" barrels.

I only put 10 shots through it (my usual 90 grains 3f with PRB), and I saw absolutely no more blackening of the stock.

Kinda hard going by photos on a computer screen and finger wiggling on a keyboard, but I'd sure take a closer look at yours following what I found with mine. If TC still can't come up with an answer for yours, you might want to try relieving the wood very slightly in those blackened areas, then shoot it again. I wouldn't do that till you get some answer from TC just in case they want to see the stock.

Here's another thought. Anyone know of an easy test he could use to determine if the black actually is residue? That would be another worthwhile test to see if my experience has any bearing on his situation.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Anyone know of an easy test he could use to determine if the black actually is residue?

I believe the idea of putting some clean white paper in there, replacing the barrel and shooting a few times would tell the story.
If there really is a leak, that would be cause to get on the white horse.