Big Problem with TC .54 cal Barrel

[50cal.cliff]

Anyone know of an easy test he could use to determine if the black actually is residue?

I believe the idea of putting some clean white paper in there, replacing the barrel and shooting a few times would tell the story.
If there really is a leak, that would be cause to get on the white horse.

OK I thought the same thing from the first time I saw the pic but, I am not all that familiar with TC. That it was rust from the wet conditions. If I can do this like I want to I will try to explain. I am going to try and post Ohio Hunters original post below my text.
In Ohio Hunter's original post he says,"Opening day was a wet raining soggy mess"! In the first pic I see a black area. That in the second pic it totally corresponds to that area. In the second pic you see a real heavy rust spot at the corner of the barrel lug, that to me looks like nothing more than water contact. The same with the area just back from the lug. This is a slightly tight area to begin with in my opinion on most rifles. The inside of a stock is usually not sealed well unless and effort by the owner has been made to do so.
The way I see this is that if it had been from escaping gases unless it is a recent rupture, on this gun it would have shown before. Also black powder gases and water make a different type of corrosion. It turns to rust but it appears more a corrosion with bubbled white area when it first appears. If caught initially you can almost wipe it away with your hand if its not bad. I don't see any of the white corrosion area in the pics.

If it were mine after sending it too TC and they said it was OK I would do the following. I would video the whole experience. I would clean the barrel well and the stock area. I would then cut a piece of white paper that would allow for the lug to just poke through it. I would then put the barrel back into the stock and then I would load normally. Lock it down into a lead sled or tie it down in a safe manner and pull the trigger with a string from a distance.
If you can't replicate the results with the paper test the first time I would do it again with a clean piece of paper. The next time I would fire up to five shots, before I pulled the paper.
I think what you are going to find that the area is slightly rubbing (IE it is a tight area). This may show up on the paper as a dark area but it won't look the same as gases blowing out! It is a rub and it may not appear at all now that the stock is dried and not swelled causing that tight spot!

However if you see what still looks like evidence of gases escaping then you have the whole experience on video. Believe me TC doesn't want a video out there that proves they were at fault after there inspection for missing something like this and it would defiantly put them into a position of liability! And they will scramble to do the right thing and replace the barrel.

I am beginning to sound like Paul now so I am going to shut up. This is just my O2 on the subject and take it for what it is worth.

I sighted in my TC Renegade .54 cal for Ohio deer gun season. Opening day was a wet raining soggy mess! When I got home I removed my barrel from the stock to give everything a good cleaning and get all the moisture out. Once I removed the barrel from the stock I noticed my big problem. The belly of the stock is charred right at the appointment where the wedge goes through the underlug in the barrel. It looks like there must be a crack in the barrel where the underlug goes into the dovetail. I think may be it is too thin there? Hopefully these pics will explain it a little better. The underside of the barrel is even starting to corrode from resting in the black powder residue. I contacted TC/ Smith/Wesson today to see what they thought. Even though the Renegade is out of production, they would like to look at it anyway. I dont know if they will do anything or not, but I figure what the hell, cant hurt. Really sucks because I shot 5 maxihunters out of it and it grouped the last 3 shots at 2.5". Now I fear it may be a widow maker!

 

[necchi]

You nailed 50cal cliffy, :bow: :thumbsup:

 

[Prairieofthedog]

The more I look at the photos the more I think it was caused by the wet conditions.You can actually see the rust laying in the barrel channel.I have had black in my barrel channel on my TC's.

 

[OhioHunter]

Thanks to everyone who chimed in with advice and insight. As soon as I get it back I am gonna take it to my farm and try the paper test in between the stock and the barrel. FYI, some are questioning if the black on the stock was just the finish rubbing off of the barrel. When this first happened I saw the black staining and smelled it. It was absolutely black powder residue.

 

[Fred_Dwyer]

Do what is needed to feel safe. It won't help your shooting to squint and flinch each time you squeeze one off. BUT.
You can see router marks in the wood, you can see those marks rubbed off in the bluing. You can also see the semicircular front of the mortise for the lug, worn off the blue. The mortise itself seems fairly free of smudge. Smoke isn't quite so discriminating where it goes.

Carrying muzzle downward in the rain, with water flowing down the barrel inlet carried the blacking toward the muzzle from the rubbing spots.
(as best as I can see from jpgs.)

 

[CoyoteJoe]

Before firing it again I would plug the vent and pour the barrel full of gasoline. If that is a crack, which it sure looks like, the gas will very quickly seep out there.

 

[windwalker_au]

Do what is needed to feel safe. It won't help your shooting to squint and flinch each time you squeeze one off. BUT.
You can see router marks in the wood, you can see those marks rubbed off in the bluing. You can also see the semicircular front of the mortise for the lug, worn off the blue. The mortise itself seems fairly free of smudge. Smoke isn't quite so discriminating where it goes.

Carrying muzzle downward in the rain, with water flowing down the barrel inlet carried the blacking toward the muzzle from the rubbing spots.
(as best as I can see from jpgs.)

i totaly agree with you fred there is no smoke smudge below in the the ram rod channel if the barrel was leaking there would be smoke smudge there as well.
Bernie :thumbsup:

 

[D Sanders]

Here's another thought. Anyone know of an easy test he could use to determine if the black actually is residue? That would be another worthwhile test to see if my experience has any bearing on his situation.

You may try to use compressed air. I would try to plug the threaded nipple hole with a solid screw and plug the muzzle with some sort of plug with a threaded hole that I could put a compressed air fitting on. Put the pressure to it, spray the area on the barrel in question with soapy water and look for tell tale signs of leakage. The same way you look for leeks in a tire. :hmm:

HH 60

 

[Dphar]

There is a bright side.
You still have both hands.

If you were unlucky you might be in the hospital right now with a 100K+ bill pending.
But these things are cheaper than having one made by someone who has some connection to the gun other than a paycheck and uses best quality barrels and knows that shallow dovetails are better than deep.
However, in firearms, especially MLs, cheap is never good.

Has it ever been used with anything but real Blackpowder?

Dan

 

[Dphar]

Do what is needed to feel safe. It won't help your shooting to squint and flinch each time you squeeze one off. BUT.
You can see router marks in the wood, you can see those marks rubbed off in the bluing. You can also see the semicircular front of the mortise for the lug, worn off the blue. The mortise itself seems fairly free of smudge. Smoke isn't quite so discriminating where it goes.

Carrying muzzle downward in the rain, with water flowing down the barrel inlet carried the blacking toward the muzzle from the rubbing spots.
(as best as I can see from jpgs.)

i totaly agree with you fred there is no smoke smudge below in the the ram rod channel if the barrel was leaking there would be smoke smudge there as well.
Bernie :thumbsup:

The gas escape is slight and the underlug prevents it from going down. If the gas escape was significant it would have been found without pulling the barrel.
Based on what I see from this distance there just isn't anyway for this to occur in this manner other than some sort of leak. I would punch the underlug out and look.

Dan

 

[Leatherbark]

I bought a T.C. Hawken from someone in the classifieds once. The barrel was bulged at the underlug dovetail. I figured it was shot with a stuck ball ahead of the dovetail by the previous owner. That dovetail is so deep I'll bet a .54 barrel is really thin there.

Bob

 

[MSW]

i agree with 50calcliff... his advice is good, and you should do what he says. have a disinterested person look on while you do the video.

just one guy's opinion...

 

[gearheart]

Take it to an automotive machine shop and have them do a dye penetration test. They coat the part with an oil based dye that glows under black light. After washignt the oil off they look with the black light. It is impossible to wash all of the oil out of a crack so some dye will show if there is a crack.

 

[OhioHunter]

There is a bright side.
You still have both hands.

If you were unlucky you might be in the hospital right now with a 100K+ bill pending.
But these things are cheaper than having one made by someone who has some connection to the gun other than a paycheck and uses best quality barrels and knows that shallow dovetails are better than deep.
However, in firearms, especially MLs, cheap is never good.

Has it ever been used with anything but real Blackpowder?

Dan

I bought the Renegade in unfired condition and I have shot a total of 5 bullets from it using 100 grains of Goex FFG.