Bismuth

[Alberta Black]

We are going to go after waterfowl this year with our shotguns and will have to use bismuth shot. At the current price of bismuth I was wondering if we could do most of our patterning with lead shot of the same size. Does anyone have any experience with bismuth vs lead shot of the same size? Do they pattern the same or close to it?

We decided that steel was not a good option.

AB

 

[BrownBear]

I haven't shot bismuth through a ML, simply because it wasn't around when I traded off the ML (drat!). However, I have shot a whole lot of it through a variety of cartridge guns that I can't use with steel due to fixed chokes that are too tight. In my experience bismuth behaves so much like lead, both through the chokes and on a bird, that it is scary. Based upon my experience shooting a whole lot of lead through my ML in the good old days, and subsequent experience comparing lead to bismuth in cartridge guns, I bet you aren't far off the mark in your plans. I'd develop your loads with lead, then shoot a confirmation pattern or two with the bismuth. I'll be surprised if you could tell the difference.

 

i found out something here in Idaho that may be if some interest. I couldn

 

[musketman]

Name: lead
Symbol: Pb
Atomic number: 82
Atomic weight: 207.2

Name: bismuth
Symbol: Bi
Atomic number: 83
Atomic weight: 208.98038

As you can see, lead is just a tad lighter than bismuth, so shot of the same size would be heavier with the bismuth, I suspect it would pattern lower due to this...

:imo:

 

I've done a LOT of patterning and working on chokes(opening, changing shapes, etc) to get the results I wanted, from 20, 12 and 10 bore shotguns.
: Whenever ANY component is changed, whether it's the ignition, wads, shot size or "MAKE", wads, etc, the pattern changes and the numbers (percentages) then change.
: Shot sizes the same, may appear to pattern fairly closely, but actually vary more than casual appraisal will show.
: If you're wanting to shoot ducks and geese at 40 to 50 yds., then you're going to have to pattern with Bismuth - at least to see if your patterns hold up somewhat,instead of blowing. Black powder is much more forgiving in patterning than is smokeless & therein lies your crossover opportunity between lead and bismuth.

 

[berickson]

40-50 yards?? :shocking:
anyone who can wack birds at that range is a better man than me.
i don't shoot smokeless that far at those foul waterfowl
i usually don't shoot until i see their beady little eyes glaring at me.
if i can see them blink better yet and if i can see their mascara even better.
i'm too old and fat to walk too far to pick them up. ::

 

[flaming canvas]

Name: lead
Symbol: Pb
Atomic number: 82
Atomic weight: 207.2

Name: bismuth
Symbol: Bi
Atomic number: 83
Atomic weight: 208.98038

As you can see, lead is just a tad lighter than bismuth, so shot of the same size would be heavier with the bismuth, I suspect it would pattern lower due to this...

:imo:

The important difference is not atomic mass. Lead has a density of 11.2 g/cc. For bismuth, density is 9.75 g/cc. For pellets of the same diameter, a lead pellet will be about 15% heavier and will retain velocity accordingly.

I think bismuth is a little harder than lead, so you will get less deformation and more consistent patterns. :m2c:

 

[Alberta Black]

Captchee

Although hevi-shot is legal for ducks it not recommenced for barrels that are not approved for steel shot. I have read tests that show it is very deadly on birds.

AB

 

[16gauge]

DO NOT USE HEVI SHOT IN MUZZLELOADERS!!!!!!! THE STUFF IS HARDER THAN STEEL SHOT! IT WILL RUIN YOUR BARREL, IF NOT YOUR DAY!

AS far as bismuth goes, it performs closely to lead, and no, you can't pattern with lead and expect the same performance from similar size bismuth. One of the problems with bismuth is that it will fracture, esp. the larger pellets, so buffer is usually used in shotshells loaded with bismuth. The stuff is expensive, but a few test patterns will be worth their weight in gold (bismuth?). Bismuth is normally sold in 7 lb jugs, so figure about 99 loads if you are using a 1 1/8th oz load. Also remember that since bismuth is slightly less dense than lead, that you will have more pellets in a 1 1/8th oz load than a similar 1 1/8 oz load of lead (by weight). Since most chargers are designed for lead, I would shoot for a well patterning 1 1/8 oz load....that should do you well for ducks over decoys. Good luck.

 

[riarcher]

In my experience I've come to 1 conclusion, 1 size larger in shot size and load to the same weight (not by volume) and you'll be very close to "on the money" out to 45 yds. :imo:

 

Although hevi-shot is legal for ducks it not recommenced for barrels that are not approved for steel shot

DO NOT USE HEVI SHOT IN MUZZLELOADERS!!!!!!! THE STUFF IS HARDER THAN STEEL SHOT! IT WILL RUIN YOUR BARREL, IF NOT YOUR DAY!

whelp im sure glad i havnt bought any yet LOL . I have yet to go out ofter water fowl with BP shooting anything other then lead . that shows you how long its been since i dropped a flint on geese
the only problem i have with bismuth is it hard to get around here unless you want to by 10 gage loads and take them apart

 

[Rebel]

Captchee, you can order it from Midsouth Shooters Supply.

 

[No Deer]

wife got me some for Christmas. Bought it online from:

http://www.precisionreloading.com/bismuth_shot.htm

comes in 7 lb. bottles. Have not had a chance to try it yet.

NoDeer

 

[fatboy]

Bismuth works realy well compared to steel for downing ducks in Win 24 dbl #4's havnt tried it in a ml shotgun but since I have a ml dbl perc gun I may have to try this some time . Wish they could make this cheaper

 

[wtilenw]

I looked at it the other day at Sportsman's Warehouse. I think it was $60.00 for 6 lbs.
Idaho PRB

 

[Rebel]

Boy, good as i am at wingshooting, that would be some DARN ::ED EXPENSIVE ducks.

 

at that price,,, i wont be going out for geese any time soon
PRB sportsmans wharehouse down in boise told me they only carry bismuth in 10 gage not in loose shot . for 60 bucks it wouldnt have mattered really

 

[BrownBear]

For me a busy waterfowl hunt with a ML was a dozen or so shots back when I used lead. Call it a pound of shot or ten bucks using bismuth. Heck, I have to spend close to twice that for a decent box of 12 gauge duck loads these days. With three shots in my Benelli, it's pretty easy to go through a box a day unless things are REALLY going well. Bismuth is not for everyone, but it looks like I can have a great day of duck hunting with a ML for about half what it costs me with a cartridge gun.

 

[Huntinfool]

Hey Rebel I couldn't find Bismouth at Midsouith Shooters Supply. I even typed it in the search for their site.

YMH&OS,
Chuck

 

[Rebel]

Sorry about that, i meant Ballistic Products not Midsouth.