Bison caliber and loads

[Spikebuck]

No one has commented on the barrel twist, so I'm curious. I've seen the faster twists, 1:60.

I don't think so. There are lots of variables that make up "accuracy" and twist for an appropriate caliber and projectile is just one of them. As a standalone variable, fast twist doesn't equate to accuracy any more than slow twist all by itself. In addition, discussions on this forum have shown that fast twists "can" shoot round balls accurately (with other variables adjusted) and slow twists can shoot conicals accurately. Personally, I think you're worrying too much about this one variable.

Is the larger caliber to compensate for accuracy? Seems like the faster twists available in smaller caliber would perform more accurately.

Again...no. Assuming adequate energy to do the job in whatever projectile you're throwing, accuracy is important no matter what the projectile is in shape or diameter.

Finally...don't try to compare a traditional muzzleloader to your modern rifle. The traditional muzzleloaders will do the job every bit as well...maybe even better. Last year I hunted with a group of guys all shooting the most modern of 20 ga shotguns and magnum charges with the most modern slug projectiles. All five of their bucks went several multiples of distance further than any of the many large bucks I've shot with a round ball. Go figure out that one based on how the modern crowd expounds about various necessary ballastics. :idunno:

That said, my personal choice for buffalo would probably be a .58 or .62 with a patched round ball.

 

[BrownBear]

I decided to sort fact from fantasy, so I checked in with one of my hunting partners. He's been guiding Kodiak brown bear for 40 years, free-range bison for going on 20. He's also a lifetime flinter, growing up with a dad and granddad who used nothing else. He does ALL his personal hunting with a flinter, even if he guides with a modern bolt in his hand.

Here's what he had to say:

-Get it out of your system. He refuses to guide muzzleloaders for Kodiaks.

-He's successfully guided something like 40 muzzleloaders onto bison, an estimate based on a handful some years, none other years, and an average of a couple a year.

-He will not allow muzzleloading clients to make shots on bison longer than 50 yards.

-He will allow 50 calibers on hunts, but heavy conicals only.

-His minimum caliber for round ball shooters is 54, and he prefers 58 or 62.

He does 99.9% of his personal hunting with either a 54 or 62. Answering the silly "one gun" question, he picks 58 caliber for all around.

-If there's a fence within an hour's stiff walk, it's not free range hunting.

Pretty high standards. But he's not much for theory. Boots on the ground, skill, experience and common sense.

 

[19 16 6]

Answering the silly "one gun" question, he picks 58 caliber for all around.

Call me crazy here but with old Auguste having his actual boots on the real historic ground & doing it for real, maybe, just maybe a canny fellow like him had worked that out for you all those years back.
I still say if you want to do what he did, then do what he did :idunno: . Get the .58
O.

 

[omarick1948]

First buff I shot was with a .54 flinter with a .530 patched round ball and 100 grains of 2F. Big bull dropped at about 70 yards. Grave yard dead.

Great, thanks for the info. Where'd you hit him?

I was told by an experience hunter friend to shoot him between the eyes and just a little higher like having an imaginary diagonal lines crossing to form an X from it's horns to the eyes. That is a thin spot in the beasts skull and a fairly easy shot at that distance. A lung shot probably would of been best, but the conditions were right for the shot I made.

Rick

 

[mahkagari]

I still say if you want to do what he did, then do what he did :idunno: . Get the .58
O.

Yeah......that's going to be a couple of years off. Just got confirmation that his under rib is custom hand carved out of wood. That's a whole other set of build skills to practice.

 

[mahkagari]

I was told by an experience hunter friend to shoot him between the eyes and just a little higher like having an imaginary diagonal lines crossing to form an X from it's horns to the eyes. That is a thin spot in the beasts skull and a fairly easy shot at that distance. A lung shot probably would of been best, but the conditions were right for the shot I made.

And he still went 70 yards? Them sumbiches is tuff!

That's similar to my last canned cow. Stalked her up in a meadow and lay down prone to wait for a good heart shot. She turned toward me and her head filled my scope. When she headed my way I wasn't sure if she was coming to say hi or demand to know just what in tarnation I thought I was doing on her turf, but I didn't wait to find out. She went right down kicking on the first shot and thrashed her head backwards. I put another follow up into her brainpan from underneath her jaw and her lungs and legs still wouldn't believe she was done even though her neural response showed her grey matter was scrambled eggs.

 

[hoochiepapa]

ff Wonderful family history!!

 

[coloradoclyde]

I'm brand new to ML. I usually take down bison cows with a .30-06 loaded with 190 grain BTSP's and 50 grains of IMR 4350.

I'm in the market for a ML kit to get some practice building. I'm seeing .50s and .54s in the style I'm looking for. I had a chat with the ML counter guy at the local Cabela's and he said .50s with conicals should be plenty and cited Jim Shockey with his cape buffalo as an example. He also noted .50 bullets and accessories have much more variety available.

Doesn't look like .54 RBs are much more expensive, though it will add up over time. What I don't want to end up doing is getting a .54 for the extra oomph, but then being unable to find decent hunting bullets. The other issue is that the .54s I'm seeing are 1:60 and the .50s are 1:48. Not sure how much of an impact that has.

I don't have a whole lot of confidence that PRBs in that small of a caliber will get through the hair and hide of a bison with enough intact to disable the boiler room.

So, my hope is that some of the .50 varieties can be combined with an accurate powder and barrel twist to do the job and make it a little cheaper for killing paper.

Thoughts?

I sincerely hope your not considering a 50 cal. because you walked into a Cabelas and saw all those fancy 50 cal. saboted projectiles that are designed for modern inline rifles?????

Because you will most certainly be disappointed.
Traditional muzzleloaders and modern rifles are two completely different worlds....
"Muzzleloaders got it own ways"....pilgrim. :grin:

 

[Rat Trapper]

ME THREE !

Any votes that a .50 would do the job?

I think with a conical a 50 would work, but I'd rather have a 54 so I could use either conical or round ball. As for finding 54 cal balls and conical it is not a problem. You may have to mail order them, but they are easy to find.

 

[FishDFly]

"I had a chat with the ML counter guy at the local Cabela's and he said .50s with conicals should be plenty and cited Jim Shockey with his cape buffalo as an example. He also noted .50 bullets and accessories have much more variety available."



Did you ask him how many he had killed and where?

 

[BrownBear]

...the ML counter guy at the local Cabela's and he said....

At his last job he also said "Would you like fries with your Big Mac, sir?" :rotf:

 

[smoothshooter]

It is false economy in this case to worry about the added costs of shooting a .54 as compared to a .50 .
If you can afford all the expenses related to shooting a buffalo or two, you can afford to spring for slightly more expensive .54 caliber balls.
Or better yet, get your own mold and lead pot and make your own.

This is not the time to " Cheap Out ".

 

[FishDFly]

And we have a winner.

 

[coloradoclyde]

The worse the product the more it is often advertised.....
and advertising does not make a product better or credible.

Caveat Emptor.....

 

[roundball]

At his last job he also said "Would you like fries with your Big Mac, sir?" :rotf:

:thumbsup:
Would also be interesting to know who / what the total number of posters is in this thread who have ever taken a Bison with a traditional ML
:wink:

 

[Ron LaClair]

I have two .54's that I've taken many deer with but when I went for Buffalo I opted for .62cal. Sometimes I carry two long guns in case I need a quick 2nd shot. In this case I carried .62 rifle and a .62 smoothbore. The cow I shot was with a bunch of 8 and my first shot with the rifle was at 60yds. She flinched like being stung by a bee. A quick followup with the smoothbore was at 70yd's with the same reaction. The bunch kept going and I wasn't sure if I had made killing shots. After less than 100yd's the cows rear end buckled and she went down. The other buff's gathered around her, a herd instinct I guess. They stood until she expired and only then did they leave her.

The .62 rifle was loaded with 110gr. 2FF behind a .600prb. The smoothbore was loaded with 90gr 2ff behind a .597prb. The two shots hit 6" apart in the ribs and both passed completely through and out the other side.

 

[cynthialee]

Never shot such a large critter.

I have done allot of reading on this type of topic and I would go with a large patched roundball of .58 or larger in caliber to do the job of buffalo slaying.

Now if I had to do it with a 50 or 54 I'd say go with the .54 and a heavy 400+ grain conical.

Don't sweat the small stuff like availability of ammo. Get some casting gear and make your own. You won't ever worry about what the store has to offer ever again.

 

[Spikebuck]

That was some great shooting. :hatsoff:

Don't take this question (to which there is no answer) as saying the second shot shouldn't have been taken because if they are on their feet it's best to put another one in if you can and I agree completely with taking it, but I wonder what the impact of that was on how far she went considering the high-quality initial shot placement. (How's that for a run-on sentence! :grin: ) I'm guessing that the first shot would have done it in about that same amount of time/distance.

 

[crockett]

Might want to think about back up. Miller paints two mountain men creeping up toward buffalo. Mountain men often carried a pair of pistols. In any event I'd go 54 caliber over 50 caliber. If you solo with just the one rifle, you're in the same spot as those years ago. Same risks and consequences.

 

[Ron LaClair]

I'm guessing that the first shot would have done it in about that same amount of time/distance.

Yes the first shot was probably all that was needed but because of hardly any reaction I wasn't sure if the first shot was in the boiler room. I'm sure anyone with a modern repeating rifle would have taken the second shot...and maybe a third. "Better safe than sorry"