Black Friday 1858 Remington

[AZbpBurner]

Cabelas seems to end their sales without notice. I've seen many great sales on-line, only to come back to them the next day & find it back to the regular price. If you want one, better put in your order right now! You won't be disappointed with the .36 cal.

 

[Terry Fairchild]

Got my 1858 Monday night and shot it Tuesday morning.
Nice gun BUT:
Same frame as Piettas .44 1858 ,simply bored for .36.
Now for the problemo: the plunger that seats the ball is the .44 cal plunger that's been turned down to .36 approximately 1/4" from the tip. That's as far in (1/4")the cylinder the plunger will go, with 18 grains of powder the plunger WILL NOT seat the ball snugly against the powder and we all know what that can cause.
I thought about retuning the gun, but my bet is they are all like this, SO my solution was to remove the plunger and extend the turned down diameter about another 1/4". This allows full travel of the loading arm and complete (1/2")compression of the ball against the powder.
I'll probably e mail Cabela's and see if they care.

 

[Nativearizonan]

The sales price on the 1858 went up from $169 to $199 a few days ago, on their web page.

I didn't order one of those, but yesterday I caved in and ordered a brass framed sheriff's model (non H.C.) 1851 in .44 for $139. Free shipping, so even with tax a brand new revolver to be delivered to my door for less that $150. That's kind of hard to beat. Even if I never shoot the thing, that's a decent investment, in my mind. But I will shoot the thing, light loads, of course, because of the brass frame.

Just the gas to drive to the nearest Cabelas costs me $30-40.

 

[Nativearizonan]

I just checked and the 1851 has gone up $10 to $149 since yesterday. I guess I just got in under the wire on the $139 price.

 

[USMA65]

Got my 1858 Monday night and shot it Tuesday morning.
Nice gun BUT:
Same frame as Piettas .44 1858 ,simply bored for .36.
Now for the problemo: the plunger that seats the ball is the .44 cal plunger that's been turned down to .36 approximately 1/4" from the tip. That's as far in (1/4")the cylinder the plunger will go, with 18 grains of powder the plunger WILL NOT seat the ball snugly against the powder and we all know what that can cause.
I thought about retuning the gun, but my bet is they are all like this, SO my solution was to remove the plunger and extend the turned down diameter about another 1/4". This allows full travel of the loading arm and complete (1/2")compression of the ball against the powder.
I'll probably e mail Cabela's and see if they care.

Mr. T, I looked at my gun after I read your post and noticed the same thing, except maybe a little worst. I simply did not notice this last night when I opened the gun. It is impossible to safely load mine. The reaming that Pietta did was not on center; it is angled. I called Cabelas, told them about my purchase and your post, as well as what the condition of my gun is. They want it back. And it is going back. I will never again buy a Pietta product...period. I feel like a rookie making a mistake, and should have noticed the problem. Thank you for your post. I would repair mine, I guess, if it were repairable, which it is not. Please, anyone who ordered one of these be safe.

 

[jamesthomas]

Very, very interesting!, and I was going to buy one . Now I have a new 1851 Navy .36 that is just about perfect. It seems someone was cutting corners at the shop.

 

[nkbj]

Oh boy am I glad about resisting the urge to push the button.

 

[Terry Fairchild]

Sent an e mail to Pietta this morning, cc'd Cabelas.
This is a good, fun shooting gun and would be a quick production fix for Pietta. It'll be interesting to see what their response( if any) will be to my note.
My advice to anyone that bought one of these guns: don't shoot it until you figure out how to get the ball pressed tightly against the powder charge or send it back to the vendor.

 

[jamesthomas]

I would have called them up myself, Who knows how many E-mails they get everyday.

 

[Terry Fairchild]

Got a response from Pietta.
Some dumb ass advised " putting something between the ball and powder, usually a patch, that's how you load a cylinder".
I guess I've been doing it all wrong for years!
If I didn't machine the plunger to allow full compression of the ball in the cylinder, I guess I would be in the market for patching material that would be 3/16" thick!
So there you have it: some moron at Pietta customer service really doesn't care or doesn't understand !

 

[USMA65]

You would think that a reputable company which already makes a gun in .44 cal, and wishes to offer that gun in .36 cal, would try to get it right the first time. After all, what do they have to do? Bore the barrel correctly. Make sure the chambers are properly sized. Pietta did all of that; and produced a beautiful gun. But they failed with the simpliest of tasks, making sure the plunger was properly tooled. No, they decided to grind the .44 rod down. Mine is ground at an angle, which is self-limiting at best. But then to find them unresponsive, or disinterested, is disturbing. The following is a letter I am sending today to Cabelas with my gun:

3 December 2015
Dear Cabelas:
On Black Friday I purchased a Pietta 1858 New Army Black Powder Revolver, .36cal, from you. I was so excited to get the gun at such a good price. I even posted on The Traditional Muzzleloading Forum about the sale and my purchase. Several forum members also bought guns. I received my gun yesterday, and was quite happy, until I read a post on the forum from a man who noticed that his was not right. The ball plunger rod is evidently a .44 cal rod which has been reduced about 3/8” to allow it to fit into the .36 cal chamber. Obviously this is not sufficient to properly load a ball directly onto the top of the powder. Failure to do so could be disastrous, causing an explosion, injury and even possible death.
Today I called you to report the condition of my gun. I was forwarded to an employee named Ty, who understood the danger and recommended me sending the gun back. As the gun is defective, I request a full refund and that you do not charge me any shipping charges.
I understand that a company as large as Cabelas cannot possibly examine every item sent by a supplier; you are at their mercy. However, Pietta has placed you in a very untenable position. Your liability should warrant a recall of all of these guns. I appreciate your staff’s concern, and pray no one is hurt.

It should be interesting to see what happens on Cabela's side of the equation. I believe/hope they will do the right thing.

 

[Terry Fairchild]

I received an e mail early this morning from Pietta reiterating that the proper way to load these guns is with a patch or a wad. They also asked me for dimensions of the part in question. I replied with the requested info as well as commenting that loading with a wad was an option and not absolutely necessary. I also suggested they look at one of these .36 cal 1858's of which I was certain that they had and hopefully they can identify the problem.
I just got the response to my reply: they are offering me a replacement loading lever! I'm dumber than most but I really don't think replacing the loading lever will solve the problem.
Maybe there was something lost in the translation to Italian😀
Also forwarded these communiques to Cabela's but haven't heard anything from them yet.
I hope you get a response from Cabela's USMA65.
I think now that Cabela's and Pietta are aware of this very real safety issue it would be encumbent on them to issue a recall of these guns.
Now that both companies have been made aware of this hazard, they would not only be liable but negligent if someone were injured or worse from an exploding cylinder.

 

[swathdiver]

I have one of these and it is top notch. There have been plenty of posts over the years letting folks know that it is built on the same frame as the .44s for commonality and familiarity.

How long are your plungers? 24 grains under a ball is about all we can stuff in there, 20 for a Kaido Conical and we routinely shoot round ball with 15 grain charges.

:idunno:

Sure you fellers aren't missing something?

 

[Terry Fairchild]

I just can't see what I was missing, these things are pretty simple!
I have 7 other revolvers, 6 Piettas and 1 Uberti. They all work flawlessly: load with powder, force the ball in using the loading lever, ball seats against powder, push cap on the nipple and BANG these beauty's shoot!
The latest Pietta ( my seventh ) however could not compress the ball anywhere near bottoming against the powder. Wrong, wrong wrong.
I removed the plunger and turned the diameter down, allowing it to fit in the cylinder, fully compressing the ball.
Unfortunately everyone doesn't have the tools to modify such a factory mistake.
Please don't misread anything I've written, I like Piettas and think they are beautiful,good quality guns.
That's great that yours works good, but the one I got( and evidently others) wasn't made correctly. If someone got one of these improperly made revolvers and used it without realizing the hazard there could be consequences.

 

[Terry Fairchild]

Hey swathdiver,
I just had a thought(dangerous!), when you load 15 grains in your .36, lever the ball in with your plunger then see if you can push the ball in any further with a stick or rod.
That's the way I shot mine when I first got it until I modified the plunger.

 

[Zonie]

Seems to me that just adding a little bit more powder in each chamber would have solved the problem. :hmm:

 

[jamesthomas]

Seems to me that just adding a little bit more powder in each chamber would have solved the problem. :hmm:

What happens if the pistol shoots better groups with a lighter load?, and more powder makes it shoot all over the place?.

 

[swathdiver]

Well my plunger here is about 3/8" long (shortest point) until it stops on the chamber face. That leaves about 1" depth inside the chamber.

After a couple thousand rounds, including about 1/2 pound of 15 grain charges of Swiss 4fg, there's nothing wrong here.

Chambers mic at .369, grooves are .367.

Some folks have mentioned 30 grain charges, most we've ever been able to use is 24, any more and after seating the ball we're cutting it flush with the chamber to shoot it out. Same with the Kaido Conicals, can only get 20 grains under one of those and if we forget to change spouts, out comes the knife again.

I don't think there's anything wrong with your sixguns fellas. I reckon they just look unfamiliar because well, you just got them.

This six shooter makes it tightest groups with 24 grain charges of 3fg under a round ball and wad.

15 grain charges of 4fg shoots same as 20 grains 3fg under a Kaido Conical.

 

[USMA65]

"I don't think there's anything wrong with your sixguns fellas. I reckon they just look unfamiliar because well, you just got them."

Well, evidently Cabela's thought there was something wrong. The grinding the factory had done on mine was angled, leaving a 1+mm butt joint on one side and a huge spur on the other. That's angled, not straight, and therefore incorrect. But then I may be just unfamiliar with my just newly received sixgun. :hmm:

 

[swathdiver]

Your situation sounds different then the one I was responding to. Photos?