Black powder cap and ball pistols

[ZUG]

I have had several chain fires with a baby dragoon brass frame that I built from a Dixie Gun Works Kit back in 1970 or 71. It was very sloppy fit on all the parts. The multiple cylinder discharge - sometimes two and three at a time gave me the jitters and were caused by the discharge flame entering from the nipple when the percussion caps either fell off or the cylinder contacted the recoil shield. As I said the gun was VERY LOOSE. I ended up retiring it and eventually junked it. I now own MANY steel frame revolvers from Pietta and Uberti and never had a chain fire since that baby dragoon kit gun.

 

[MSW]

wouldn't hesitate to carry an 1860 colt with a "sheriff" barrel. all six loaded and the pin between the cylinders ... proper fitting caps and corn meal above the powder... yo'll get about the same terminal ballistics as a .44 special loaded heavy, which is more than enough to solve two legged problems

 

[user 43911]

1st I have seen, chain fire that is.

 

[Eterry]

It must have been 1980 or 1981, I was living way out in the sticks on a huge ranch. One Saturday we heard shooting about 1/4 mile away. Dad drove out to check it out, then came back telling me to get my black powder rifle and bag.
A group of about 6 guys were shooting several black powder guns on Big Sandy Creek, near an old abandoned farmhouse.

Among the goodies they had was a cheap brass frame 1851 Navy. I shot my 45 Kentucky and watched the teens shoot the '51. The 2nd time they shot it a boy about 15 aimed at a can and pulled the trigger. The ground erupted from several impacts. He dropped the pistol and said it exploded. I later learned it had chain fired.

I have no idea what happened, but I think the fire from one cap got to the next. Number 11 caps were about all you could get, and they were big for the Italian guns.

I have always wondered if the ball is big enough to shave lead upon chambering how on earth could anything get past that to ignite the powder. I think the flash from a cap could easily jump to another ill fitting cap, causing a chain fire.

BTW, I think ANY black powder weapon is a poor self defense weapon compared to modern weaponry. 150 years ago they were cutting edge, but so was a locomotive that had to stop every 10 miles to take on more water for the steam engine.

 

[Eterry]

wouldn't hesitate to carry an 1860 colt with a "sheriff" barrel. all six loaded and the pin between the cylinders ... proper fitting caps and corn meal above the powder... yo'll get about the same terminal ballistics as a .44 special loaded heavy, which is more than enough to solve two legged problems

With round ball its close to the energy of STANDARD 44 Special loads, not the Cor-Bon or Buffalo Bore loads. I have not been impressed with a 1860 Army's effectiveness in the field on a 60 pound critter.

Oh course, my Great Grandpa carried a 44 Special as a Deputy Sheriff for 40 years, bringing him home from harms way on at least one occasion.

Like the story of the Texas Ranger who showed up at the Barn Dance wearing his pistol. The hostess saw his pistol and exclaimed "Ranger, are you expecting trouble?" "No ma'am, he said, If I was expecting trouble I'd have brought my rifle!"

 

[SPQR70AD]

You know you have graduated into C&B shootist when you get caught swiping your wife's cold cream to use for top cylinder lube and she slaps you so hard you wind up face down in the litter box with a mouth full of Special Kitty.

when I clean my BP pistol I use my wifes toothbrush for small parts I put it back when done and so far never got caught

 

[Treestalker]

when I clean my BP pistol I use my wifes toothbrush for small parts I put it back when done and so far never got caught

Roma Victor!

 

[Art Caputo]

I’ve been shooting black powder revolvers, (primarily 2nd gen Colt Navy’s and Dragoon’s ) for a couple of decades. I have not experienced any chain fires. Always made sure that balls were tight fitting, with a slight ring shaved, and, generally made it a practice to use a WonderWad. Less mess and extended operation before having to clean. I’ve always been quite impressed with the accuracy and reliability of these revolvers.

 

[B P Arn]

I have been shooting black powder handguns for about 8 years, and having way more fun than I ever thought I would!

I had several chain fires at first. I used (and still do) a small amount of grease (made from a mixture of beeswax and olive oil) over the loaded balls. The only caps I had were too big for the nipples. Once I started using properly fitting caps, the chain fire problem went away.

I always, ALWAYS load six shots. I am mystified why someone would think loading 5 would be safer.

I would not carry a black powder gun for self-defensive use under any conceivable circumstance (as long as there are modern centerfire pistols or revolvers available, anyway).

 

[TFoley]

1st I have seen, chain fire that is.

See post #16.

 

[user 43911]

TFoley said it first, TFoley said it first, see post #16 OMG.
I can't go back a delete my post now, been longer than 30 minutes.
Anyway,posting link to the video shows the new guy that the world will not end if it does happen, hell he still has all his fingers .

 

[Billy Boy]

when I clean my BP pistol I use my wifes toothbrush for small parts I put it back when done and so far never got caught

Solid brass!

 

[user 43911]

Toothbrush is a very good gun cleaning tool, stiff bristle for deep corners and heavy crud and soft bristle for areas of case color, exterior bluing etc.

The toothbrush was invented in West Virginia otherwise it would have been called a teethbrush .

 

[jonathan butcher]

I've used wonder wads for years, nary a chainfire..

I have had several chain fires with a baby dragoon brass frame that I built from a Dixie Gun Works Kit back in 1970 or 71. It was very sloppy fit on all the parts. The multiple cylinder discharge - sometimes two and three at a time gave me the jitters and were caused by the discharge flame entering from the nipple when the percussion caps either fell off or the cylinder contacted the recoil shield. As I said the gun was VERY LOOSE. I ended up retiring it and eventually junked it. I now own MANY steel frame revolvers from Pietta and Uberti and never had a chain fire since that baby dragoon kit gun.

 

[Bad Karma]

With round ball its close to the energy of STANDARD 44 Special loads, not the Cor-Bon or Buffalo Bore loads. I have not been impressed with a 1860 Army's effectiveness in the field on a 60 pound critter.

Oh course, my Great Grandpa carried a 44 Special as a Deputy Sheriff for 40 years, bringing him home from harms way on at least one occasion.

Like the story of the Texas Ranger who showed up at the Barn Dance wearing his pistol. The hostess saw his pistol and exclaimed "Ranger, are you expecting trouble?" "No ma'am, he said, If I was expecting trouble I'd have brought my rifle!"

I wouldn’t feel completely naked armed with an 1860 Army. But I’d feel half clothed with a .45 Colt revolver, and even ready for a dance armed with a Sig .45. That being said I have seen firsthand the results of an 1858 being used defensively against a 200# previously healthy young man. Round ball works. These are not toys.

 

[Dashing Leper]

...I have always wondered if the ball is big enough to shave lead upon chambering how on earth could anything get past that to ignite the powder...

A burr on the chamber mouth will do it. Shaves the round a little smaller than what seats against the chamber walls. Add the fact that a spherical round only makes contact with the chamber walls in a relatively thin band around the circumference of the ball.

 

[duelist1954]

I know some people still think most chain fires happen at the chamber mouth...they don't. With this gun I had loaded a tight fitting conical bullet, and I liberally covered the chamber mouths with my beeswax/lamb's tallow lube.

In this case the chain fire happened because, the New-Old-Stock replacement nipples I used on the antique Colt 1860 were made in the early 1960s by Weisz, and they turned out to be 0.02-inches too long.

When I fired the first shot, the blow-back through the nipple blew the caps off the chambers on either side of the chamber in battery, and set off the powder in those chambers. I actually saw the caps coming off. I filed the nipples down to the right height, and I've had no problems since.

 

[TFoley]

I've used wonder wads for years, nary a chainfire..

WonderWads here in UK cost 15c EACH. On the average guest day we go through around a hundred shots with my ROA...apart from the cost of the powder I freely spend [guests are GUESTS], that would be another $15....gimme a break.

 

[TFoley]

I know some people still think most chain fires happen at the chamber mouth...they don't. With this gun I had loaded a tight fitting conical bullet, and I liberally covered the chamber mouths with my beeswax/lamb's tallow lube.

In this case the chain fire happened because, the New-Old-Stock replacement nipples I used on the antique Colt 1860 were made in the early 1960s by Weisz, and they turned out to be 0.02-inches too long.

When I fired the first shot, the blow-back through the nipple blew the caps off the chambers on either side of the chamber in battery, and set off the powder in those chambers. I actually saw the caps coming off. I filed the nipples down to the right height, and I've had no problems since.

Mr Beliveau, if this is actually the real and genuine you, and not a person adopting your famous name, that post nails it better than anything I have written over the last fifteen or more years.. And while you are here, let me just add that I appreciate all the hard work that you have put into your Youtube productions over the years - in particular the builds. That swivel-barrel rifle turned out to be just drop-dead gorgeous!

 

[smoothshooter]

I would be interested to get everyone's take on the safety of black powder pistols, say the old Army cap and ball black powders. Are they as likely to have accidental multiple chamber firing as I have heard? My family told me that black powder rifles are safe, but they would not recommend the pistols. What are your thoughts? Any particular models that stand out as good quality for new shooters to black powder pistols?

Don’t worry too much about the dreaded CHAIN FIRE.
The chain firing balls only have a velocity of 150-175 FPS. While startling, will not damage the gun, or cause impotence.
Tight-fitting balls and caps will prevent chain fires.
Grease over the chamber mouths may have some utility in softening bore fouling, But has no effect preventing chain firing, and is extremely messy. Thin lubricated wads under the ball works well on the fouling, and are much easier to deal with.

P. S. - do not make the newbie mistake of buying a brass framed revolver. Spring for the extra cash and get the steel frame. You will never regret it.