Black Powder is Corrosive???

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Little Wattsy

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I have heard ALOT that PB is VERY corrosive and will cause rust quickly in a ML. The thought occured to me though...I have heard, hear and elsewhere, of people leaving a gun loaded for extended periods of time is that rusting out the breach or is the corrosiveness "activated" by being fired?
 
Wattsy
I have certainly hunted with my percussion
over a two or three day period,even up to a week
in dry weather and using the same load.No problem...I would change caps daily.If it were
damp maybe up to 3 times a day.
Caps are cheap compared to a nice buck!IMO
snake-eyes
 
Combustion converts less than half the mass of black powder to gas; the rest ends up as a thick layer of soot inside the barrel. In addition to being a nuisance, the residue from burnt black powder is hygroscopic and an anhydrous caustic substance. When moisture from the air is absorbed, the potassium oxide or sodium oxide turns into hydroxide, which will corrode wrought iron or steel gun barrels. Black powder arms must be well cleaned both inside and out to remove the residue.

That answer your question? :thumbsup:

tac
 
Black Powder made in America( Goex)is coated with graphite to do several things, among which is to impede the absorption of water from the air. That is why the powders are marked with a small "g" after the size symbol- " F" . Its the residue, which exposes both the nitrates, and the sulphur in the powder to air, that quickly absorb moisture from the air, and create both nitric, and sulphuric, acids, that eat metal!

normally, unless the powder is dampened, either by water being left in the barrel before it is loaded, or by water getting into the powder charge after its loaded, The powder is good for months and years. After all, we have discovered cannon barrels at the bottom of the oceans that have been there for 300 years and more, loaded, and when the barrel is cleaned out, the powder will still burn.

I suspect that some kind of wood plug was put in the vent holes to prevent water from entering the powder charge, so that the barrels could be kept loaded during voyages, for instant use, but that is just a guess.

The best ways I have read here in prior posts to keep your powder dry is to put a piece of plastic wrap between the muzzle and your PRB when you load, so that the plastic acts as a moisture barrier between the powder and PRB. Plastic wrap can also be placed under a percussion cap, and for flintlocks, putting a patch soaked in alcohol, under the frizzen, in a bare pan, with half the patch lay up along side of the barrel and covering the touch hole seems to be a very good solution. The evaporating alcohol pulls moisture out of the main charge through the vent hole. Cover the whole action with a Calf's knee, and/or tuck the action in your armpit, or under a poncho, in the rain, and you should have dry powder. With a flintlock, you need to consider priming your gun when you see or hear game, or else you have to change the priming powder every 15-20 minutes or so. The alcohol in the patch will NOT foul the priming powder, and its best to use the coarser FFFg or even FFg powders to prime your rifle on rainy or foggy days, rather than using the smaller, FFFFg powder.

Do carry dry paper towels, or towels and dry cleaning patches with you in an inside pocket to use to wipe down your rifle frequently in the field. Keep powder dry was such a problem back in the days flintlocks were the only guns that battles were often " called off " when it began to rain hard, by agreement of the officers on both sides of a conflict. This practice continued right up through the Mexican American War in 1845, and only really ended with the American Civil war where Percussion rifles were the norm. However, the Civil War saw a few battles called because of rains because the powder used for cannons was too damp to be reliable. The first cartridge, Breech loading guns had been invented and existed in the 1850s, but were too small in caliber, and too few in number to be of much consideration at the beginning of the war. By the end of the war, the outcome of some battles depended on units using their own cartridge, repeating rifles, mostly Spencer rifles and carbines.
 
I don't know much about the corrosiveness of unfired BP, but potassium nitrate is a salt. Salts are generally hygroscopic and can cause rust. Unfired black powder doesn't seem to be as problematic as the residue that firing it generates, but it does have the potential to cause rust if left long term.
 
Once I shot my Springfield .69 at the range and totally forgot to clean it for 5 days, but when I removed the powder residue inside the barrel there was no rust at all, same with the nipple. Just gave it a good cleaning and the barrel was still nice and shiney, but I wouldnt feel too good to leave it dirty lying around after shooting it, PB IS corrosive!
Maybe it needs more time to build up rust, bit its fact if you ignore cleaning your muzzle loader it will rust like a sunken ship in the pacific!
 
Moloch: Depending on what lube you were using with the bullets, you might have had the advantage of the lube neutralizing some of the acids in the residue, too. Relative humidity is always a concern, as is temperature where the gun is stored. Store it in a hot damp house, or out building, and you can get rust on any metal surface that is exposed.
 
As an experiment I left a .44 Remmy loaded for 9 months. Just loaded, with wonder wads, capped, and in a drawer. (Don't give me what-for here. No wife, no kids, and instructions in my dead-box.)

I took it out to my land, didn't expect it to fire at all, and all went off the first time with no hesitation. I was impressed.

So... Loaded but not fired: gonna last for a while. But once you fire, clean, clean, and clean some more.
 
I've gotten by with that a few times in the dead dry part of summer. It was when I knew I'd be shooting again in a few days anyway. I would check the bore daily just in case, but no rust. I wouldn't try that if there's much humidity though. I've never seen steel rust so fast as when it has BP fouling on it.
 
Gents,
a friend recently cleaned out some boxes at his mothers house and found a pistol he hadn't seensince just before he left for Vietnam--yes, in the 60's. Just out of curiosity, we took it to the range, put on a new cap, and it went right off the first time. And then some of my friends wonder why i like these things so much...
 
Wattsy said:
I have heard ALOT that PB is VERY corrosive and will cause rust quickly in a ML. The thought occured to me though...I have heard, hear and elsewhere, of people leaving a gun loaded for extended periods of time is that rusting out the breach or is the corrosiveness "activated" by being fired?

It is far less corrosive than some "replica" powder. All you need to do is clean the fouling from the barrel. The powder, assuming its made with pure potassium nitrate is not hygroscopic and will not corrode metal. However, the powder bed of any ML is degreased and this can cause corrosion even if no powder is present.

Dan
 
Plink said:
I don't know much about the corrosiveness of unfired BP, but potassium nitrate is a salt. Salts are generally hygroscopic and can cause rust. Unfired black powder doesn't seem to be as problematic as the residue that firing it generates, but it does have the potential to cause rust if left long term.

The difference in Potassium Nitrate and table salt is that salt will suck up water from the air and promote corrosion. While PN is an oxidizer it can cause trouble too but it will not suck up water from the as many salts do. Since it stays dry it is not likely to cause problems. I know that being loaded for 6 months or more will not rust a ML arm if its clean when loaded. But as noted in a previous post the powder bed is degreased and thus unprotected.

Dan
 
paulvallandigham said:
Moloch: Depending on what lube you were using with the bullets, you might have had the advantage of the lube neutralizing some of the acids in the residue, too. Relative humidity is always a concern, as is temperature where the gun is stored. Store it in a hot damp house, or out building, and you can get rust on any metal surface that is exposed.

BP fouling is not acidic.
I would also point out that the British gov't would not accept powders coated with graphite for military service. Its a cheap way to make the powder shiny or to make a poor powder appear better than it was. it actually increases the level of fouling deposited in the bore since the graphite is not combustible.
High quality powders were pressed hard enough to tolerate being actually polished as they were final dried. This remaining moisture would pull a small percentage of the potassium nitrate to the surface and this formed a hard shiny shell. This is why Swiss is so much brighter than Goex.
One old test for powder quality was to rub a small quantity against one's palm. If it made a black mark it was graphite coated and thus inferior.

Dan
 
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