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Black powder moisture absorbtion

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While searching for the issue of Muzzle Blast with the inline flintlock I came across your article Larry in the 2009 march issue and had to comment on the very good job of testing you did. It was an outstanding and informative article.
I did a bit of testing on a much less rigorous and scientific scale than you did on vent and priming placement, on the moisture absorption of black powder. I used Goex cartridge, 3F goex and Kik 4 F lined out in a pan and subjected to my humidified bluing cabinet at nearly 100 percent humidity and about 88 degrees F on average.
At the end of each hour I pulled the open pie tin out and primed the pan of my flint pistol three times with each line of powder and observed the flash. I was not interested in timing them only reliability of ignition. I brushed out the pan each time before firing the nest one. All fired in every case. I did this each hour for five consecutive hours and noted the cartridge begin to give some hesitation at hours 4 and 5. The real surprise was the 4 f Kik which seemed to be impervious to the humidity which had reached the dew point with droplets covering the cabinet wall. It fired every time without hesitation that I could detect with my senses. As you pointed out in your article things would have to be really slow for us to sense notice.
This little practical test I ran starting with a new flint and alternating test granulation kept the playing field at least as level as one would encounter in real use. It totally debunked what I though I knew about finely grained black powder readily absorbing moisture.
I came to the conclusion that the fouling is probably the real culprit in miss and hang fires with flintlocks in wet weather as it readily absorbs moisture.
P1010625-1.jpg

P1010626-1.jpg
My test pistol. MD
 
i dont remember who it was but someone on this forum did a test very similer to this not very long ago, they had similer results.

in every test it appears black powder is unaffected by humidity. its been found that its the residue that collects moisture and causes failures. so in theory if you have a clean gun the prime should not be affected by the amount of moisture in the air.

-matt
 
It's a Muruku made copy of a Kentucky in .45 cal I picked up from a friend for 20 bucks and was in need of some repair. Stock was cracked, front sight missing and the barrel had some rust pitting.
She cleaned up real well but the flash hole is on an angle and is not lined so when it burns out I will have a bit of a challenge fixing it.
The funny part is that it produces a better spark shower and directs it into the pan better than my match pistol. MD
 
Good idea, I will have to try it some time and see, course that would introduce a variable that wouldn't mean much to anyone else. I was just interested in how the powder reacted not my gun in particular. It was just a means to ignition.
Pletcher's hot wire ignition would have been a good way as well but I kinda wanted to do it as it would be used in the field. MD
 
New to flintlocks, but one of the things I did notice was how the burned powder residue left in the pan became moist after firing! I was able to get 3 to 4 shots just using the brush to clean pan and then went to using a windex patch to wipe out the moisture. I was using Goex 3F for prime and this was due to others telling me that it was more reliable in damp conditions than 4F....was also due to frugality "cheap" nature I have...anyway this has been an eye opener for me! :shocked2:

I guess the lesson learned here is don't believe everything you hear...test...test...test...to become fully aware! :wink:
 
I did notice was how the burned powder residue left in the pan became moist after firing!

Yes, the after-crud from bp burning does attract moisture like crazy. In humid conditions I use a cotton patch to wipe the pan between shots.
This is where the myth of bp attracting moisture (it doesn't) comes from.
No difference in moisture attraction between 3Fg and 4Fg. Another myth.
 
Interesting experiment...and I agree there's no question that post-shot fouling sucks moisture out of the air very quickly. However, at least using Goex 4F for my hunting over the past dozen years, I can see some changes slowly taking place in a 3grn pan charge during high humidity as it absorbs moisture.

Opening the frizzen after 10 minutes and slowly tilting the rifle side to side, the fresh powder slides back and forth in a clean pan easily. Then during successive checks I find I have to tilt the rifle a little further each time for the prime to "let go" of the pan and slide. After about 30 minutes in high humidity I can actually see the surface of the prime getting a "skin" on it”¦like the top of a cake that comes out of an oven...and I have to tilt further and further until a section of the prime 'cake' breaks loose and slides.

Null B is apparently impervious to the effects of humidity, but various batches of Goex 4F over the past dozen years have always shown themselves to quickly attract moisture in a squeaky clean unfired pan for me. Whether or not that would affect ignition speed to the human ear I can't say, because just based on the obvious visual clues as to what's happening I never take that chance...too much time, money, and effort goes into getting a good buck or longbeard in the sights to risk it...compared to the few seconds it takes to brush out the pan and refresh the prime.

But bottom line, Goex 4F has always attracted moisture under conditions of high humidity, in a 100% clean pan, ever since I've been using it.
 
Thanks for the input. My test did not include getting the pistol wet which I'm sure could change things. It was powder only subjected to the humidity as I didn't want to put my gun in the cabinet and get it repeatedly wet.
No doubt moisture accumulating on top the powder and wetting the pan as well would arrest the spark from igniting the charge just as it does anything else. Still, moisture absorption of the powder itself on a grain level was what I was trying to find out about and was a real eye opener to me.
I was always lead to believe it would soak up humidity like a sponge and it did nothing of the kind.
Actually I need to do some more testing as I'm told wet powder can be dried out and fired which leads me to think that the powder did not actually absorb moisture when this happens or it would break down on a grain level and dissolve, but rather was coated with water an could not ignite because of the surface wetting.
Good information from your input. MD
 
There is a lot of difference between soup and damp. I don't see soup. :) Crusty yes soup no. Larry
 
If you read my link you notice I didn't see any soup either. :)

I named the topic "Is It Soup Yet?" because at the time we had a bunch of folks saying things like,
"That 4F powder in my pan turns to soup minutes after I prime...." and such.

Of course we all know those statements are exaggerations but it sounded like a good play on words, what with Campbells Soup using that phrase in their ads. :grin:
 
From the acetone extraction test we know that the levels of Creosote vary according to manufacture by a great deal.

The wick deposits from the Swiss powder smell strongly of “oil of creosote”.
This is the form of creosote generated by the destructive distillation of various type of
wood. The odor of a smoked ham, not a railroad tie in the hot August sun. The
buckthorn alder wood charcoal used in the Swiss powder would show about 8%, by
weight, of oil of creosote.

The oil of creosote content of the charcoal is the secret to a so-called “moistburning”
black powder.

Also worthy of mention is this.

If Swiss powder is subjected to acetone leaching, and then dried. It will loose
totally the desired “moist-burning” property. The loss of the oil of creosote will have
utterly no effect on velocities in the gun. It will simply be the difference between “moist”
bore fouling and dry bore fouling. The presence of the oil of creosote yields some water
as a product of combustion.
 

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