Black powder power

[homebrew .357]

Hi Guys, I`m shooting my .45 Hawken with 70grs 3f and a REAL looka like bullet,270gr ,with a twist of 1-33",now does anyone know what the fps mite be?. It cuts a nice hole in paper ,but what I would like to know is how power full a .45 is with a bullet or prb. Has anyone cut a pine slab and used it to see how far black powder rifles penetrates, I`d say the .50, 54 would be the winner with the heaver loads. So has any one shot any thing other than paper, hogs, deer, just to see what damage you do. Homebrew.357.

 

[rmark]

The old Lyman Blackpowder handbook shows a 70 grain 3f powder charge with 265 grain minie bullet at about 1350-1600 feet per second from a .45 caliber 1-66 test barrel, depending on barrel length and powder brand.

 

[Herb]

Lyman's "Black Powder Handbook & Loading Manual, 2nd edition" does not list your load. Closest is a .45 28" barrel 1-48 twist, 285 grain Buffalo HP Conical. With 70 grains of Goex 2F muzzle velocity is 1356 fps.

 

[homebrew .357]

Thanks, that is what I`m using, 2f Goex, have used up a tin of 3f goex which I think is best for the .45 but just trying the 2f. All so likes 50grs 3f for prb ,I thought the fast twist mite be no good for the ball but it`s not bad, 2" at 50 yards. Will have to test the 270gr load to see what womp ability it has for New Zealand deer. Homebrew.357.

 

[mooman76]

I used ff in my 45 rifle back when they used to say certain calibers took certain powders and that was it. Also sometimes an over powder wad helps them REALs shoot better especially with heavier charges.

 

[Zonie]

Glad to hear your using 2Fg powder.

A lot of guys shooting patched roundballs like 3Fg powder but for people shooting a slug like your 270 grain bullet, using 3Fg powder could be dangerous.

Lymans Black Powder Handbook 2nd ed, doesn't use 3Fg powder in the loads they show.

Even using 2Fg powder under the 285 grain Buffalo HP Conical that Herb mentioned that 70 grain powder load gave Lyman a breech pressure of 19,100 psi. :shocked2:

 

[Sure Shot 2]

Don't know what speed your bullet is at. But have killed deer with both a Patched ball and with a 250 gr Sabot bullet from PR bullets. Didn't think I noticed much difference with both deer. One was shot thru the base of its neck it having a pass thru and died on the spot. The other was spine shot above its front shoulders. Was dead by the time I walked over to it for a look see. 45 hawken is my choice for the field. Must be get'in old as I like the 45s recoil more & more every year. 54 Hawken sits at home. BTW I always shoot 2-FFG Gorex out of my rifles. Have no use for 3-FFF as I don't own any B/P pistols.

 

[nw_hunter]

If I hunt deer with a 45 cal, I use a conical.
As far as penetration,the heavy bullet will penetrate much more than the lighter RB. I shot a 10 or 11 inch block of green cedar with a 50 cal. REAL bullet and it blew right through it.The 50 RB with the same charge went in about 5 inches.Not scientific, but the weight of that bullet made the difference.The 50 RB would have been plenty for deer. The distance to the block of wood was 50 yds.

I use only 3f Goex or Pyro P. I don't use the 2f anymore. I get more bang for the buck with 3f. I even use it in my smoothbore 20 ga. (62 cal). I just use 10 to 12% less per charge.I use 65 grains of 3f for my 62 hunting load.Last deer I killed with it was a complete pass through at about 40 yds.

 

[homebrew .357]

Thanks guys for your input, I think I`m in the range of 1300/400fps and with the 3f I`v been giving it lots of proof tests. This is my home made Hawken, and mould, and the gun is good and strong, so will try some lube patches just to see if tightens up the group at 50yrds .With the 3f there`s not much kick and I think less fouling than the 2f. And yes ,I like the 270gr bullet for hunting, N Z red deer are fely solid, but as I`m having a hip op soon they will have to wait till I can give them the big surprise, :rotf: Cheers, and hot barrels, Homebrew.357.

 

[cynthialee]

Glad to hear your using 2Fg powder.

A lot of guys shooting patched roundballs like 3Fg powder but for people shooting a slug like your 270 grain bullet, using 3Fg powder could be dangerous.

Lymans Black Powder Handbook 2nd ed, doesn't use 3Fg powder in the loads they show.

Even using 2Fg powder under the 285 grain Buffalo HP Conical that Herb mentioned that 70 grain powder load gave Lyman a breech pressure of 19,100 psi. :shocked2:

I did not know this!
On occasion I shoot a conical or two when I shoot just to shoot them as I have them and remind myself why I don't shoot conicals....Yes I have been using 3F across the board. The only time I use the 2F is in the smoothbore. Time to change my ways.

 

[Herb]

They didn't use Goex 3F in the loads I quoted. But they used 120 grains of Goex 3F with a 200 grain Buffalo Ballet in a 28" barrel 1-48" twist .45 for 2028 fps at 26,300 psi. Same load with Elephant 3F, 120 grains at 1914 fps and 24,800 psi. 245 grain Lyman Maxi#454616 with 120 grains of Goex 3F at 1864 fps and 21,300 psi and same with 120 grains of Elephant 3F. In .50 caliber, a 350 grain Buffalo HP Conical with 120 grains of Goex 3F at 1625 fps and 20,200 psi, plus seven more Goex or Elephant 3F with conicals, not counting the sabot bullets. Quite a few of the .50 caliber loads go 20,000 psi up to 33,500 psi, and some of the .54s go into the 20,000 psi range.. Do you really think there is a safety concern with the use of 3F and conical bullets?

 

[Zonie]

It's just a matter of personal opinion but based on my previous job as a mechanical design engineer I consider any breech pressure over (I'm sticking my thumb up in the air to get a good estimate here) 19,000 psi in a low carbon steel barrel to be excessive in any but the thickest walled barrels.

In this case, low carbon steel includes SAE 1018, 1020, 12L14 and 1111 thru 1117.

Just looking at the breech plug, 19,000 psi will create a force that's trying to blow a 3/4" thread out of the rear of the barrel with a force of about 8,400 pounds.

While a low carbon 3/4" thread is capable of withstanding a force of 15,000 pounds, that is for a slowly applied load.
Explosive forces which apply the load almost instantaneously can overcome mechanical features that can withstand higher loads under more benign conditions.

 

[homebrew .357]

Ok, Looks like I`m in the ball park with my AISI 1045 steel barrel with breech plug thread of 1.5 metric and I know it`s hard stuff, I cut rifled it. But will be looking for a REAL bullet mould at 240grs and will stay at the 70grs of 3for 2f, should have plenty of woopum,(new word) Cheers .Homebrew.357.

 

[F.G. Ford]

Hi,
With the powder charge and bullet that you are using, it is almost equal to a 45-70 cartridge in power.
There is nothing better!
Fred

 

[Johnny Tremain]

My 42 inch swamped Rice barrel 1/60 twist, with 74.5 gr of 3F, spinning a patched round ball (think they are 130gr) exit the barrel at 2033fps.

Why such a heavy boolit?

 

[homebrew .357]

Hi, The heavy bullet, well I made the mould to try and get a R E A L type about 240grs, it cast at 260grs with a lino/ lead mix, no good, could not get the bullets in. So cast with tin /lead mix and a lot easier with the softer mix. Now loading the 70grs of 3f and getting the sights lined up , card on powder, then bullet, taped in and no problem, not much kick, it`s good and I like it. A few weeks later I weighed the bullets on my reloading scales, 269/70grs, :idunno: . Now this gun was made to shoot conicals, it has a twist of 1-33" and the heavy bullet will be good for N Z red deer, if and when I get to go hunting with my home made Hawken .45 I want to put them down fast, you get no second shot. Homebrew.357.