Black powder Storage Question

[Huntschool]

I used an old 50 lb ATF legal magazine for a long time. When we distributed the stuff we had a 6,000 lb magazine but that thing had location rules and was not here at the house. Today wife and I keep from 4-20 lbs on hand. It is stored in my work shop which is close to the house.

Some states have different rules for storage of under 50 lbs and for that matter possession limits with out a magazine. Retail operations, I think, are still required by ATF to store in a 50 lb approved magazine. They can have more then one but no more then 50 lbs in each one.

Illinois, as an example, I think, at one time had a 5 lb max/per person in possession unless you licensed a magazine with the Illinois Dept of Mines and minerals. Could be wrong, it was a long time ago.

 

[necchi]

Some states have different rules for storage of under 50 lbs and for that matter possession limits,,

True that, and very much worth mentioning.
Not only State, but City and County rules can apply in any local jurisdiction.
State of Minn say's 50#,, your golden.
My "City" say's no more then 10# inside the city limits.
This "City" has a tri-county thing going on,, so just outside the city,, depending on county it changes.
Two County's follow the state with 50#,, the third has it set at 20#.
Best advice I have is follow City/County rules, but never tell your Insurance man. It's none of his business because he has to follow the rules too!

 

[Felix the Cat]

You need to think about what you are trying to achieve when storing explosives. I would suggest there are three, not necessary compatible objectives:

1. Safety. Essentially you do not want the explosives you are keeping to become a hazard, or at least to keep the hazard to acceptable levels. You have two issues to resolve here.. Prevention, i.e. to stop it happening, and Mitigation, to minimise the outcome if something does happen. Fire is your main issue with storing Black Powder. You therefore want to keep it somewhere where it is unlikely to become involved in a fire. Black powder explosions mainly spread through dust. Keep containers covered and be careful when handling it that dust does not come in contact with flame. If the powder does ignite, then you want to make sure the quantity involved is small and the fire does not spread immediately to the rest of your stash. Segregation is the solution here.. small quantities spread around, so that if some goes off you do not lose the lot.

2. Security. Gunpowder is an explosive and can be used for making criminal devices. It therefore needs to be kept out of the hands of those who should not access it. Police and other security oriented authorities seem to like folk to keep gunpowder in steel safes and other secure storage containers. I consider BP in a steel box is a BOMB! Always remember that blast diminished asto the square root of the distance - double the distance, quarter the effect! Fragments carry the energy of an explosion considerable distances. Ammunition bunkers as used by the military are designed to stop fragments coming in to the store, not out. It is impossible to contain anything but a tiny explosion in a store..!

3. Storage. At the end of the day, you want your powder to keep in good condition. Black powder is a remarkably stable material provided it is kept dry and not moved about too much. I have examined BP removed from shell from the 1800s that is as good as the day it was made. BP does not suffer from temperature cycling in the same way as Nitro powders, although storing at a constant temperature will be better for the container. The secret is to keep it dry and sealed.

Recently in the UK the authorities have mandated that Black Powder be kept in 1lb plastic containers in a segmented plywood wooden box. The box has to have plywood dividers between each plastic container which come up over the top of the container. The lid has to be secured with an intumescent strip which will seal the box when exposed to heat. The aim is to delay the effects of a fire, and prevent the whole contents exploding at once. The box is designed not to produce fragments outside a limited area..

 

[FishDFly]

If there was anything deserving a "sticky", this is it. It has been discussed for as long as the forum has been here.

 

[Huntschool]

[QUOTE="Felix the Cat, post: 1523152, member: 32313]I consider BP in a steel box is a BOMB! Always remember that blast diminished as to the square root of the distance - double the distance, quarter the effect! [/QUOTE]

The 50 lb ATF approved magazines that I referred to, if exposed to ignition, would blow the top off as the weakest point thus other than the top/lid there are no chards. The tops were locked but there was a loose fit. Remember BP is a low explosive and as such will take least resistance direction on ignition just like in our rifles..... I have seen these magazines tested and the tops always blew. The box might be a rumpled but it was basically in tact.

The stuff is not directional like "door busters" where all you need is a light backing to direct the force of the explosion.

Just sayin...…..

EDIT: I have not seen what happens when you throw one of these new 1 lb plastic containers into a fire. I have to wonder that if an area melted through you would not get more then a huge "flash in the pan" as the container would have been corrupted long before the heat level would have reached detonation level. Don't try this with one of the old 1 lb metal cans...….

 

[Ames]

I have many grades and many pounds sitting in ammo cans in my barn. Barn is insured and the ducks don't know what's under the stairs. All's well, no worries.

 

[Felix the Cat]

You must of course abide by any local laws and ordinances, however there has been work done recently on storage for propellent that suggests that keeping it in steel containers is not a good idea..

Steel magazines for high explosives work by stopping any incoming fragments setting off the contents. This is a sensible strategy, as the aim is to stop detonation. Gunpowder does not detonate if involved in a fire, but it will explode. By splitting up the storage you can significantly reduce the blast effect and by making the container less likely to produce fragments, you can minimise the collateral damage due to fragmentation..

I suspect rules may change at some point...

 

[John Applebee]

In the UK we have to have an explosives licence then we can store up to15kg/33lbs of black powder but it has to be stored in a wooden box with compartments usually nine to a box and then only in half kilo containers. The box has to be made of ¾ inch plywood as a minimum. I have two boxes that I made myself they are 1 inch thick flame retardant MDF. I just accept the fact that if my powder goes up half the house will go with it!

 

[John Applebee]

At my club we buy our powder in bulk once a year. 25kg/55lb. It comes from the Czech republic loose in a plastic bag that is in a cardboard enclosure. We sell it for £22 a kilo which is about a third of the price of Swiss black.

 

[RHensley]

I keep the BP in the bottom of the gun safe. For what ever reason the safe is always kind of cold and it's in the pantry outside wall. I don't keep that much just about 3 lbs. I have 2 horns that I keep full. I'm kind of lucky. Ilive about 1 1/2 hours away from Dixie Gun Works so when needed I just jump in the truck or on the bike and ride there.

 

[Felix the Cat]

I keep the BP in the bottom of the gun safe. For what ever reason the safe is always kind of cold and it's in the pantry outside wall. I don't keep that much just about 3 lbs. I have 2 horns that I keep full. I'm kind of lucky. Ilive about 1 1/2 hours away from Dixie Gun Works so when needed I just jump in the truck or on the bike and ride there.

The secret to storing Black Powder is to keep the moisture out. BP is not that sensitive to temperature changes provided this does not result in sucking in moist warm air and allowing it to condense on the inside of the container. I have come across many old metal powder cans which have rusted along the inside base seam, which I suspect is as a result of opening them in warm moist conditions and then allowing the moisture to condense out when the sealed can cools down. Moisture has a tendency to condense out on any fine dust that has collected in the base seams of the cans and start the corrosion process.

Powder cans also rust along the top seam of containers, however this is invariably on the outside of the can as a result of warm moist air condensing on cold cans and collecting in the concave top.

I think storing BP in vapour proof plastic containers is the way to go, not only are there no seams for powder debris to collect in, allowing any condensed moisture to be re-absorbed into the powder mass, but also that a plastic container will vent quicker and not contribute to fragmentation in the event of a fire..

As a general principle ammunition should be kept at an even temperature, as differential heating and cooling of components will lead to degradation of the ammunition, however in a muzzle loading context this is less of an issue as components are stored separately.

 

[Stony Broke]

Years ago when I owned a gun shop in California, I was required to have a specific container to store black powder and a specific license to sell it. I eventually gave up on the whole project as it was not financially worth all the trouble. I was required to have a container that was fire resistant and had a weak wall, so it could not build more pressure before the whole mess blew up. I used an old document safe with thick fire resistant walls, and just let the lid sit unfastened on it....this met the requirements.
I keep my personal black powder nowdays in one of my safes in my garage.