Black Powder vs Substitutes

[Mike Pierce]

just getting back into black powder shooting after a 30 yr hiatus. Question is what to use, actual black powder, such as GOEX or the smoleless substitutes. Won't be hunting, just target and fun shooting. Books don't really make things clear.

 

[Runner]

Real black is the best. The others are usable, but black is still better. No smokeless powder at all!

 

[spottedpony]

I've tried all 3 to some extent, one rifle seems to prefer pyrodex & gives a bit better accuracy. The other doesnt like pyrodex quite so well, but shoots equally well with 777 or goex. For plinking and range shooting i use mostly goex, though i find i have to swab/patch the barrel more frequently. 777 seems to burn a little cleaner in mine, & shoots to the same poi as goex. Ignition of the powder seems to be the same no matter which of the 3 i use. The only problem ive encountered, and others will probably say the same, cci caps for percussion rifles dont seem to be as reliable, and my experiences bear this out. sometimes i'll have a cci misfire while remingtons seem to be virtually trouble free.

 

[[email protected]]

just getting back into black powder shooting after a 30 yr hiatus. Question is what to use, actual black powder, such as GOEX or the smoleless substitutes. Won't be hunting, just target and fun shooting. Books don't really make things clear.

I use Shockey's Gold in my revolvers (I don't have a musket) and it works for me with easy cleanup. I also am not shooting in competitions. My friend Kuhndog, who does shoot a musket, didn't like it nearly as well as original black powder and gave me all of his. I just found an article comparing black powder substitutes that might serve as a guide to you. I don't know the authority of the author. It is just something I found so reader beware.
[url] http://www.chuckhawks.com/black_powder_substitute_roundup.htm[/url]

 

[FTW]

I use 777 in my caplocks,an 8 block drive.I have to drive 50 miles one way to get goex.Having it shipped here ani't cheaper unless I were to buy a case and that is more than I want to spend at one time for powder.I use hoppes #9 plus for patch lube and shoot 50 plus times without the need to wipe between shots.I was never able to shoot that much with pyrodex.Don't like it much anyway.I've never tried to shoot that much with goex,flints don't last but about 15-20 shots in mine so I run out of time or flints.But I don't wipe between shots with it either.

 

[Le Grand]

Mike, If you are a flintlock shooter, there is no substitute for black powder. Le Grand

 

[MikeC]

Simply said...If you are shooting a flintlock then you really don't have a choice but to use BP. You could use "duplex loads" but you still need the real stuff for that also.

Caplocks your choice, real BP or Subs will work just fine.

I have some Pyrodex Select but once that is used up I'll be using the real deal in all my BP rifles.

 

[Headhunter]

When weighing pro's and con's with Real Powder and Subs, in terms of accuracy, and dependability for the vast users of traditional muzzleloaders, The Real Powder wins....

BUT...

There is a twist.

Sometimes Subs are all a man can get his hads on and it is available at a LOT of places. It gives acceptable accuracy and real good accuracy in some rifles.

PERSONALLY, I have never pulled the trigger with subs down the tube. Never had the need to.

Headhunter

 

[Rat Trapper]

Over the years I've tried them all. Today black powder is no longer avaible for sale within reasonable driving distance where I live. The cost of a lic to sell black powder has gone up to the degree that the small shops lose money selling it. I have gone to Triple Seven in both of my rifles and it works very well. Vel is higher accuracy is excellent and it burns cleaner.

 

[sidelock]

Real Black is it. Others can't match it,and its PC, if thats important to you.

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Real Black is the only way to go! Many a day have I seen ignition problems with the fake stuff during the summer with high humidity! And the crud rings are harder to clean. Besides, I just like the smell of real Black, I breathe deep when the wind blows a good cloud in my face, after all it's the smell that made us FREE :hatsoff: All the best, Dave

 

[ss1]

Try them all. The one YOU like the best [no matter what the reason} is the one YOU should use.

 

[paulvallandigham]

I have to disagree with you. Rat Trapper, and I think you do people a disservice putting out this information. First, all the subs cost much more than does real Black Powder. And, I do mean a lot more. Second, the chronographs show that the subs do not shoot as well, or with as small a SDV as does Black powder.

Third, you ignore the cleaning problems that the subs bring to the sport, in that they cake up faster, and require a bore brush to get the cake loose, they require modern gun solvents to clean them out, instead of water, and maybe a little soap, and unlike the oft-heard nonsense that you don't have to clean your rifle every day, they are more corrosive to steel barrels than Black powder is.

Those are a lot of negative for something that is suppose to be better than black powder.

If you actually did use black powder to shoot any gun, then you would be ordering your powder shipped directly to you, and ignorring the local dealer problems. We have links here to both Graf & sons, and Powder, Inc. which ship small quantities to your door for a price that is much less than any of the subs you buy. If you go together with other shooters to buy your powder, you can order a case, and cut the cost per pound even more. Money is a serious consideration for most of the people who shoot black powder. I would much rather order my powder and pay 12-14 dollars per pound including hazmat fees and shipping, than to pay 27 dollars a pound for an inferior powder substitute.The fact that some local store no longer wants to comply with Federal regulations to sell Black Powder is no skin off my hide. Even before the regulations, no dealer carried black powder, simply becuase they refused to spend money to buy an explosive " safe" to comply with state regulations. Even when my gun club approached a dealer and offered to provide a " safe " that would meet the standards, he would not carry the stuff. So, our club buys powder once or twice a year as a group, and divides the powder among the buyers when it arrives. You can hve up to two cases( 50 lbs.) of powder shipped to you without any special license. That can take care of a lot of powder needs for an entire gun club. And, nothing in the law says you can't turn around and order another 50 lbs for shipping to you the next day!

That is my $.02 cents worth.

 

[rabjr]

There is no Substitute for Black powder. :v

 

[Will Bison]

Once again I agree with Paul, the real stuff is the only stuff I use.

Good old gunpowder is the ticket. Very reliable and predictable unlike the subs.

I order 50 lbs at a time, cuts the hazmat per pound so that it becomes very reasonable.

Do a group buy if 50 lbs is too much for your needs. Five pounds or 50 pounds, the hazmat is the same, $20 bucks. In most cases you also save sales tax.

 

[Wes/Tex]

There is no Substitute for Black powder. :v

Amen brother! Might as well use the real thing. They all require cleaning up afterwards, in spite of some of the ad, and a couple swipes with water is a lot easier. :winking:

 

I was a closet pyrodex user for some time :redface:
But when I tried GOEX, I saw the light.
Ordered 10 pounds from powder inc.
No hassle, no problems. Shipped to my front door UPS.
Burns cleaner, Fast ignition on flintlocks, easy cleanup. And no more misfires.
Go with the real thing.

 

[renovato]

A lot of it depends on the gun and it's preferences. I shot Pyrodex when I couldn't find black powder. It's just as corrosive, is harder to clean and doesn't ignite well. It doesn't work well in some guns and causes hangfires or misfires. Other guns don't seem to mind it as much.

Black powder, at least in my guns, is more accurate and easier to clean. I finally got up the nerve to make a bulk order since it's almost impossible to find locally.

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Paul, I use nothing but FFFg Goex and I deliberately buy it at ML stores! Why you're gonna ask? I'll tell you. To keep the little guy in business. As a small business owner myself, I know how hard it is to fight a price war. Paying more for something is just my way of helping out the little guy. I choose to shoot a $300.00 rifle and pay $16.00 a pound for Black. Doing the math, I figure I'm spending about a tankfull of gas per year more than I have to. That's o-k with me 'cause I feel like I'm helping the person who is new to our sport find a local shop where they can buy stuff and ask questions. Shooting a $2K gun and complaining about the price of powder falls on a lot of deaf ears around here in Jersey where our sales tax just went up 16%, from 6 to 7 cents on a dollar. Now before I get shot for what I just said, IF there is nowhere to buy it within a reasonable distance, then mail-order is fine! Not trying to start a problem with anyone on the Forum, just looking to keep as many firearms retailers in business as possible. The folks that work for the retailers need their jobs and they also know who to vote for so that their employer can stay in business :hmm: . The more firearms storefronts there are, the better it is for all of us! Sometimes getting stuff on the cheap can be very costly in the end. All of us need to do everything we can, especially now, to keep our sport from being wiped-off the face of this great Country...How about sending the $ you save to a group that's fighting for your rights? Keep the smell of Black hangin in the air, and with the utmost respect for everyone readng this, Dave

 

[Rat Trapper]

I have to disagree with you. My experience with Tripple Seven has been great. I have shot it in both my Hawken and a modern rifle. Accuracy is excellent. I clean my TC Hawken with soap and water and clean up is easy. When shooting conicals lubed with bore butter I do not need to clean at all until I'm done with shooting.
Where I live I can buy Tripple Seven for $20 a can. Since it works so well in both of my rifles, (the modern rifle shoots close to an inch at 100 yds)(and the Hawken 3/4 inch with conicals at 50 yds) I fail to see where I'm doing anyone a disservice!!! I do understand your rifle is not my rifle, may not like Tripple Seven,
but I can only report my personal experiences. Accuracy is everything to me, and if I wasn't happy, I'd be trying something else. I'll continue to use what works for me.