Black Powder

[Old Charlie]

I have been wondering what was considered a years supply of powder in the old days. If the mountain Man came to the voo once a year, he would have to pack out his powder for the year. If for any reason he ran out or lost his supply it would be a long trip get more. And while we are at it how much lead?
We gripe about the availability of it today. Just think about those guys!
Old Charlie

 

Probably not as much powder and lead as we would imagine in the western fur country.

Those guys were trapping and taking beaver on a daily basis. Beaver was food too! Lewis and Clark record eating a lot of beaver on their journey.

Shooting made noise, noise attracted Indians.

Judging from the bigger calibers prefered in the "Hawkin" type rifles, I'd say they were mostly for defending one's hide from man or animal and for taking large game, buffalo and elk.

Shooting for food ment taking several days supply at once. An elk would last how long? How much longer would a buffalo last? Ten shots might feed one man through the winter. If you shot an elk per week you would use less than a pound of powder per year, 2 pounds lead!

A running gun fight against numerous foe ment you were dead any way. I doubt you would use more than a pound before they got you, or gave up. I think I remember one of Jedidiah Smith's groups being cornered by the Mojuavie and running dry of powder by the end of the day. They resorted to their Green River knives tied to sticks for a final defense.

I would speculate that two pounds would have been adaquite. That is two hundred shots for the average hunter in the west.

Now the east is a different matter. The longhunters were shooting several deer each day, each deer requiring a full charge. The Bledsoe Brothers killed 2600 in one hunt. At just 70 grains per charge that is 26 pounds of powder, 50+ pounds of lead!

:m2c:

 

[Claude Mathis]

We gripe about the availability of it today. Just think about those guys!

I think the "availability" was better back then. They made more of it and there were far more places to obtain it.

 

[Musketeer]

I think the "availability" was better back then. They made more of it and there were far more places to obtain it.

Me thinks ye may be right. Even if you lived out in the west, there were probably numerous trading posts at which one might procure some powder. Nowadays? Let me put it to ya this way: There is not ONE store (as far as I know) in the entire Phoenix area that carries real blackpowder! I live in a county of approx. 3.7 million people, and I can't even get a can of Goex here! We BP shooters must be scarcer than I thought! :shocking: If it weren't for the Internet.....well, I don't even want ta think about it.... :shocking: :thumbsup:

 

Back'n tha good ol'days life were simple,.... ya either shot blackpowder, or a bow!! (HAZMAT ment ya had neither one :: !!)

I wish it were still thet way!!

 

[musketman]

Don't forget that these mountain men made caches of powder and lead as well as furs and other supplies...

If they bought a keg, they would only have to tap into it a few times through out the year to replenish their horns...

 

[Keith]

Those guys were trapping and taking beaver on a daily basis. Beaver was food too! Lewis and Clark record eating a lot of beaver on their journey.

I found this about Lewis and Clark, they were in a different stiuation than most trappers, but I found this interesting. According to the list of supplies they packed they brought 200 lbs of rifle powder and 400 lbs. of lead. So their loads were roughly half as much powder as lead.

Shooting for food ment taking several days supply at once. An elk would last how long? How much longer would a buffalo last? Ten shots might feed one man through the winter. If you shot an elk per week you would use less than a pound of powder per year, 2 pounds lead!

But how long would the meat last?

A running gun fight against numerous foe ment you were dead any way. I doubt you would use more than a pound before they got you, or gave up. I think I remember one of Jedidiah Smith's groups being cornered by the Mojuavie and running dry of powder by the end of the day. They resorted to their Green River knives tied to sticks for a final defense.

I recall that story. As I remember they were crossing a river when ambushed. The men were stripped down working and they lost most supplies in the boats. So, they weren't carrying much on them at that moment.

 

[RussB]

In similar discussions, I never seem to hear the word "shot" used, it is always lead.
Since there were a tremendous number of smoothbores in this time frame, is it not possible that "lead" was actually bags, or kegs, of "shot" that could be melted down for roundball?

I don't know how the Mountain Man, Hunter, Trapper, made shot for the smoothbore, he seemed to always have his bag mould handy, but what did he really use for casting? Seems ingots would have been hard to deal with over a camp fire, while shot would have a very practical use by being either or.

I have heard of shooting a lot of "stuff" other than shot through a smoothie...possibly even more than actual shot. I'm sure there is some truth in it too.

We know he had to have powder, and we know he used both ball,and shot. So, which came first? I don't mean for this to be a chicken or egg thingy, just curious.
Russ

 

[musketman]

Neat thing about those smoothbores, when you are out of shot, it will shoot small round stones...

Then they take their lead and powder...

 

Lead was normally sold as i pound ingots. Shot was cast in larger sizes, using gang type molds. Small shot was often obtained by flattening a piece of lead and choping it into squares with a butcher knife. Swan shot was obtained by pouring the molten lead through a seive and letting it fall into water.

Round small shot like we use today was not available until shot towers were perfected.

Jerky keeps for quite a while, so an elk ,jerked, would last one man quite a few days, even if yhe was eating 9 pounds of meat a day, like the L&C crew.

:thumbsup:

 

[Huntinfool]

I don't know how much truth there is to it but I read somewhere that the longhunters of the east used what we today would consider reduced loads. The purpose was to use less powder and retrieve the ball from the meat if possible.

Then they would simply recast it. I would imagine if one killed thousands of deer he might be able to figure out what loads penetrated the vitals and stopped short of exiting the other side. I also read that patching was sometimes the thin deer hide such as the tender belly part or part of the legs.

Of course out west in grizzly country I can't see using reduced loads.

Can anyone confirm this or refute it. Just wondering it seems to make sense to me. :redthumb:

Chuck Goodall
The Original Huntin' Fool
&
Kanawha Ranger Scribe

 

[Keith]

As far as L&C they supposedly carried at least part of their supply of powder in lead casks. The cask would then be melted down to form bullets. I have no idea if this was used by anyone else earlier or later. Seems like a good idea, but I never heard of it outside of the context of L&C. Has anyone else?