Blade rivet

[crockett]

I want to make a folder using a steel blade rivet. If I use steel soft enough to peen hammer (coat hanger) I'm wondering how well the rivet will wear on a tempered blade. I'm probably worrying for nothing. So.....what to do? I need a hard area where the tang fits over the rivet but I need soft ends to peen hammer. I could use a bushing but it isn't pc.
In any event I'm thinking about case hardening the rivet- that will put a tough skin over it where the tang makes contact. I can then file and round the ends of the rivet to remove the hardness it that area and have soft steel to peen hammer.
I'm pretty sure I'll try this but I'm just asking here if there are any shortcomings to this that I haven't considered?

 

[Black Hand]

...are any shortcomings to this that I haven't considered?

Using coathanger as pin material in the first place...

If you are concerned with wear, you could use a piece of hardened rod that has been selectively softened on the ends to allow peening.

 

[LRB]

Basically what Black Hand said. Get a piece of W-1 drill rod, harden, then anneal the tips. I just use it as it comes. No hardening. I really don't believe it is necessary. You could try a piece of music wire and anneal the ends. It is hardened and spring tempered.

 

[bpd303]

I save all my worn out (broken) drill bits to use as rivets, just anneal the ends.

 

[crockett]

The pin is so short I didn't think I could do that- how do I just anneal the ends? Wrap the middle in wet cloth and heat one tip at a time to red and let slowly cool?

 

[necchi]

Heat Sink.
Holding the piece in the jaws of a Vicegrip pliers, and then yup, just heat the ends.

Let the Vicegrip and the piece cool completely after doing one end, before doing the other end

 

[Rifleman1776]

I use brazing rod for pins and rivets often. Even that is a bit hard to peen but it works. Jantz can supply all kinds of rivets for knives. jantz.com

 

[cutshurt]

I've made a few folders and I have used most of the pin stock mentioned, I have never had one returned or have any were out either. Never have hardened any.

Darrel

 

[razorbritches]

Buddy, I have built a few and just use nails for the pin, never had a problem. My personal folder I took apart to change the blade after I had broken it using it as a pry bar, no problem with the pin or blade. If this is a sunday-go-to-meeting knife (yes I have those) use something pretty, otherwise I have got good service from nails,or old welding rods,or coat hangers, or nine wire etc etc

 

[crockett]

Well I'm probably worrying for nothing. A lot of knives have brass shoulder bolsters- so brass blade rivets and I think any type steel is tougher than brass. My two concerns are 1- steel soft enough to peen so you don't see it in the steel shoulder bolster; and, 2.how to peen hammer on an angle- the blade rivet will be about dead center on the bolster so that won't be to bad but this knife is going to be a copy of a 1816 lockback- the lever/rocker about 1/3 the handle length and the pin the lever rotates on will be on a curved surface and located in an extended steel shoulder bolster (this knife will have integral shoulder and heel bolsters and rather thin scored bone scales). When I strike this pin head on an angle the knife will probably kick out- I'll have to come up with some type of jig to clamp to.
I guess figuring all this out is part of the fun :thumbsup:

 

[LRB]

You got a pic Dave?

 

[crockett]

Unfortunately no and I don't have a means of posting photos. I got that pattern from the Smith's 1816 Key. I'm copying one of the large knives that has long shoulder and heel bolsters BUT I am also changing it a little and making it a locking blade- the same type locking blades shown elsewhere in the same catalog.
I made my templates out of Plexiglas because you can file/sand it easily and you can look through it to adjust the kick, etc until the blade stops correctly. What I didn't realize is that there is enough spring in the plexiglas that you can actually make the Plexiglas spring high (lock back) or low (slip joint) and get the plexiglas parts to snap open or closed.
I'm starting my first spring operated knife with the integral bolsters because I think that it easiest. I'm leaving the sides whole until everything mechanically works and then I'll file out the middle of the sides for a bone scale. I'll either do a scored bone (parrallel lines) or skip line checkering.
I already have the next folder in mind, a slip joint. It will have an applied (staked on) front steel bolster with fancy file work, no heel bolster, and horn scales where I cut up a cow horn, boil in oil and press flat, and use that for the scales.

 

[crockett]

And, if it comes out okay I'll try to find someone that can allow me to post a photo so others can see how I did it- I'll detail what I did and welcome any comments. The kicks at the time were usually square and very close to the front of the handle- there isn't enough room to stamp a name in the tang area so I'll stamp mid-blade- as was done at the time. I'll grind an even taper from shoulder to tip. On the nail nick- I think they were stamped at the time a semi-circular. Today the nick is ground- flat on top and rounded on bottom but NOT curved. I'm still thinking how to replicate a PC stamped nick. I could grind one out but then I'd have to live with that.
The slip joint- I'll do with a square tang- no kick.

 

[LRB]

Sounds interesting. From what I've seen, not all had nail nicks.

 

[crockett]

That's another idea- I would be happier with no nick than one that wasn't pc.

 

[LRB]

How about a narrow fuller just under the spine? Like many swords, and some knives.

 

[crockett]

Maybe- I'm pretty sure I can build a jig to grind the nick. What I am thinking is a metal angle. On the up right portion I file a cresent shaped slot just wide enough to admit the shaft of the cutter, In the middle of the cresent I have an upward slot. I then use collars on the shaft to lock the cutter in place so all it can do is move along the slots. I clamp the blade in position and start the cutter in the upright slot (too high to be cutting metal) and bring it down and then from side to side. As it moves from side to side the cresent shape of the slot makes the nick more shallow on the ends. I'll first practice on scrap metal. I "free handed" one nick that was sort of rough and I used needle files to fix. Maybe a cold chisel could be used in conjunction with some sort of guide.

 

[tx-hunter]

The blade pivot pin does not need to be hard in the center. How many millions of pocket knives were made with nickel silver rod. I have a few of my grandpa's knives and they are still tickin. Just keep oil on the joint and your good.

 

[crockett]

I was thinking about a bushing- they are used on some custom, modern folders. The main reason I would use one is the bushing is a few thousands of an inch wider than the blade tang so I thought I might not have to worry about peen hammering the rivet too hard and freezing up the parts but then I read you can also distort the bushing- drive it into the liner, etc. Besides the bushing isn't pc.
I'm still a little wary of the drill rod because I must not be that good at annealing- still pretty tough stuff. The nickel- I sort of want the steel bolster to age/pit/etc so the nickel might stand out.

 

[Black Hand]

Just use a nail as the pivot pin...