Bore Lube / Bore Treatment Question

[roundball]

I've been a dedicated NL1000 user since I started ML 15+ years ago and have always had excellent results with it...but I swear there's such a continuous parade of posts from people who claim they've had rust after using it that I'm beginning to wonder if I've just been lucky all these years...getting nervous thinking "what if"...I've got my rifles and calibers about where I want to be and would be sick if I pulled one out of a case and found it rusted.

I've gotten into the habit of periodically (couple times a year) checking / relubing bores based on these posts but that's a lot of work in an out of cases if you have a number of rifles, etc.

So here's a question...as easy as it would be to do it, if I added a simple step to my cleaning/drying/lubing process of running a sloppy wet patch of WD40 downbore before I plastered it with NL1000, would that be of any benefit?

And would there be any downside to doing this regarding BP fouling since I assume it's a petroleum based product?

Or would I be as well off or even better off running a sloppy wet patch of Hoppe's No9 BP PLUS downbore first (instead of WD40) before I plaster it with NL1000 like I always do?

 

[snagg]

Roundball:
I have been wondering the same thing. My T/C manual recommends a non-petroleum lubricant such as T/C's NL 1000 and a non-petroleum cleaner such as T/C's Natural No. 13. They don't recommend the petroleum based lubes or cleaners. ( page 59 )
So I have been content using there recommendations. But now, with all that is being said by some of the other folks on this board about the NL1000 and what they have had success with, it makes me wonder if I'm using the right products, too.
Is Hoppes No 9 a petroleum based product??
I'll be real curious as to the comments to your post.

snagg

 

[JimG]

I hose out the barrel after cleaning with WD-40 strictly as a way to displace the water I used for cleaning. I do store it with a modern gun oil (FP-10) but that is only because I'm too much of a chicken not to. The amount of WD-40 left in/on the barrel before I wipe the exterior and run a patch down the bore with FP-10 is very minimal. I could likely use NL1000 at this point and be fine. I honestly feel that it's the use of hot water that's the culprit here. I suppose if one can wipe the hot water away immediately then all would be well. My point is I guess it's not the NL1000 but the way the ML is cleaned that's the real issue and the NL1000 is simply easier to blame.

 

[MikeChapin]

Myself, I would use Balistol instead of WD40. I use just Balistol for barrel protection but I live in a dry climate. For a more humid climate, follow it with NL 1000 for extra protection.

After using Balistol for about a year it seems to have leached all the petrolium based oil, that I used to use, out of the barrels. They now crud up hardly at all and will go all day without scrubbing and that is with just spit as a patch lube.

 

[2172]

After cleaning with hot soapy water and before lubing with Wonderlube/bore butter, I run a patch with Sheath down the bore...as a rust preventative...my CVA mountain rifle is 35 years old, my DGW Lancaster is almost as old, no rust in either bbl..Hank

 

[roundball]

Roundball:
I have been wondering the same thing. My T/C manual recommends a non-petroleum lubricant such as T/C's NL 1000 and a non-petroleum cleaner such as T/C's Natural No. 13. They don't recommend the petroleum based lubes or cleaners. ( page 59 )
So I have been content using there recommendations. But now, with all that is being said by some of the other folks on this board about the NL1000 and what they have had success with, it makes me wonder if I'm using the right products, too.
Is Hoppes No 9 a petroleum based product??
I'll be real curious as to the comments to your post.
snagg

Snagg, "Hoppes No9 PLUS BP Solvent & Patch Lube" is especially made for use with BP and it is an outstanding product...I started using it a year or so ago mainly during the winter months when it's so much drier here as it's a liquid and handles the fouling better in dry conditions than a NL1000 store bought patch did...let's me shoot without wiping between shots during the winter months too.

Interesting note however is that the label says it "contains kerosene"...my conclusion is that it must be such a tiny amount and/or is so refined that it has no negative effects like we normally associate with petroleum products & BP residue...indeed, as I said, it's an outstanding product...the bore stays so clean that after 50 shots, I only get one faint hint of color when I pump flush the bore into a bucket of hot soapy water.

But even though it's called a patch lube, since it's a liquid I'm still too chicken to use it during hunting season...will stay with NL1000 pillow ticking down on the powder :grin:

 

[bwhoffman]

RoundBall,
Good thoughts you have. I have been wondering the same things. Have had some orange show up in stored guns ect.
What I have done is...
Clean by my perfered method (there are several!)
I run an alcohol soaked patch to dry,
THEN I run a patch soaked with castor oil up and down several times to coat the bore and lands.
seems to be lots of good feedback on castor oil here as to long term storage, military use,a componet of stumpy's moose juice ect,so I figure it has merit and is not petroleum based, which is a "religion thing" I have opted for
I wipe prior to shooting with an alcohol patch to clear out any excess oil. so far this has worked in my cva mt rifle, but my son's gun has been getting the bore butter treatment, pre shoot wipes are coming out nasty.

My ultimate test is my new GM 40 barrel. its only going to see moose juice and/or moose snoot, with the alcohol wipes at cleaning and before shooting.
time will tell.

Brett

 

[FTW]

I got rust with NL 1000.So I went back to Birchwood Casey Sheath.I put a pan of water on the stove and let it boil,then put soap in and pump it thruogh the barrel.The barrel gets to hot to hold without a glove.Then muzzle down for a bit while I get a patch with sheath on it.The water that doesn't run out evaporates,the barrel is to hot to hold without a glove when I run the patch in,I make sure I get sheath in the breech plug.I run another patch the next day to make sure.No rust problems after that.A gunsmith who is a friend of mine used to pay me to clean semi-auto shotguns that were gumed up from WD 40 to the point that they jammed.

 

[Legionair]

Few thoughts here...

1. Petroleum products (kero, feul oil, wd-40, etc) can contain water. Despite the "oil and water don't mix" axiom, they will. I've spent almost 15 years in the HVAC field, and have seen feul oil tanks with dissolved water in them (we use a paste that changes color in the presence of water to detect it). So I wouldn't use these products myself.

2. I haven't tested other oils (olive, corn, ect.) to see if they will hold water, but I have seen my salad dressing separate pretty quickly....

3. When I started in BP, I bought Cabelas BP cleaning solution (some kind of orange oil mixture) designed for BP fouling. I have used this religiously for cleaning and wiping. I pump clean, run patches till dry, then use olive oil alone to lube for storage. Never had rust yet in 7 years.
*** have been meaning to get some Bear oil or deer oil to use with/ insted of olive oil*****


Not to be a salesman-- I like the Cabelas stuff and have never used bore butter or any of the others... Maybe I'm lucky too, But I don't think so... :grin:

Just an opinion.... :thumbsup:

Legion

 

[raturpin]

I'm fairly new to muzzleloading, but what I've read about TC's NL1000 states that it "seasons" the bore after repeated use just like a cast iron skillet.

This sounds good to prevent rust, as well as eliminated the need for between shoot swabs.

Here's my question, TC's been around for a long time, and from what I hear they make some if not the best ML's out there. So why would they fail to do research and/or simply push a crappy product that is going to cause their customers serious problems just to make more money?

It seems that TC is proud of the great reliable reputation for their firearms that they has managed to achieve. If their NL1000 is indeed rust causing manure, then they must realize that in a very short time their reputation would go downhill.

With all of the negative stuff that I've been reading about NL1000, I can't help but feel that there is a "Bore Butter Bashing" conspiracy forming...

Please don't take my comment TOO SERIOUSLY, after all as I said I am quite new. I'm just trying to give an outside opinion.

BTW, has anyone ever publicly contacted TC and questioned the rust problem? :hatsoff:

 

[dlpowell]

I wipe the bore with Bore Butter and have let guns sit over a year without any signs of internal rust.

 

[Sharp Shooter]

WD-40 and similar products will ruen the seasoning.

 

[renovato]

I don't know if it applies to BP guns, but I know WD-40 sure causes a lot of problems with modern ones. It gums up badly, isn't much of a lubricant anyway and doesn't protect well against rust. Basically it's main purpose is to displace water. CorrosionX will do that, along with protect the metal from rusting. Ballistol does a pretty fair job of protecting against rust also, though I haven't trusted it for long term storage.

I'd avoid the WD-40 all together. Ballistol is petroleum based also, but it doesn't have any fouling issues, oddly enough. I use it as a patch lube and solvent both. Haven't had any rust problems, even though this summer has been non stop rain and humidity here.

 

[JimG]

That's why I use the WD-40, WATER DISPLACEMENT! As for gumming up modern firearms, well I've preached and preached this for years to no avail. Don't buy the aresol can variety. Buy it in the one gallon metal cans with the pump sprayer. It's not the same stuff guys. Much 'oilier'. As for gumming up, it's never happened to me. For one good example my 5.56 x 45 NATO chambered AR has fired over 10,000 rounds with nothing more than FP-10 for moving parts/bore and WD-40 for the rest. I do use Outer Bore Foam for copper removal. As for both of my MLs. Neither seems to care about WD-40. I don't have any of this bad fouling or crud some claim happens. No missfires either. I swab the bore and run a pipe cleaner through the nipple before firing. seems to work for me. The urban myth of shotguns and revolvers binding up with WD-40 has some basis in truth. If you do nothing more than flush out the action with the aresol can WD-40 and leave it at that (which many many many people do!!) then yes it will cause you problems. Dirt and dust will make a nice 'soft varnish' like gum that will impede the action. The propellant seems to evaporate the oils off to a great degree leaving a film that attracts gunk unlike the bulk 1 gallon can variety. I understand some peoples want for a non petroleum base lube and cleaner but not all petroleum based products are evil incarnate.

edit- oh and Brownells seems to think WD-40 works fine as a protectant too! I'll try to find the link if I can.

 

[Bob J]

Ballistol is petroleum based also, but it doesn't have any fouling issues, oddly enough. I use it as a patch lube and solvent both. Haven't had any rust problems, even though this summer has been non stop rain and humidity here.

I have excellent accuracy in all my muzzleloaders with Bore Butter/Wonder Lube/Eastern Maine Shooting Supply (former Ox-Yoke employees) as a patch lube. I clean with water mixed with Ballistol, and use straight aerosol Ballistol for bore protection and exterior wipe-down. Have had no rusting with Ballistol. Ballistol is good stuff. May experiment with it as patch lube next year.

 

[Snuffy]

That's why I use the WD-40, WATER DISPLACEMENT! As for gumming up modern firearms, well I've preached and preached this for years to no avail. Don't buy the aresol can variety. Buy it in the one gallon metal cans with the pump sprayer. It's not the same stuff guys. Much 'oilier'

Same with Ballistol. If you buy it in the non-aerosol can, it's much oilier and much smellier too.
P-U.....STINKY! :winking:

 

[GreyWhiskers]

I have no experience with NL100. I clean my barrel with hot water and I make sure to run dry patches down it while it's still hot. Getting all the water out is the most important part.

I don't like WD-40 but I do use a petroleum based oil on a patch as the last step. I'm not convinced there is such a thing as "seasoning" the barrel.

 

[bob1961]

roundball....i've been using T/C's pre lubed patches w/bore butter fer shooting and hunting works good fer me so far....when i clean i just use hot water and dry outside with paper towels and dry patch down the bore till it comes out dry....then i just use hopp's gun oil to lube the bore and use the oily patch that's left over and rub down the outside of the barrel before it gets put back together and put in the case....never had any rust colored patches ever even after a couple of months when i check with a patch....then i just reoil it and put it back away and i know it's safe till i pull it out again then it's just a matter of drying the bore before use....a year ago when i stopped working on my lancaster i oiled the bore and just yesterday i checked it and it was still oil with no rust....my routine and i'm sticking to it :v ................bob

 

[Wes/Tex]

Roundball, the "rust" many mention is actually a stain created by the temp. of powder combustion. I also know from your previous posts that you do a really thorough job of cleaning the bores of your rifles after use and this is the reason you haven't found the brown "rust" stains in your guns. There's nothing wrong with using this particular lubricant, just needs to carefully cleaned afterwards. Don't think you'll see any bad stuff!

 

[Slowpoke]

RB,
I have a few thoughts.... First, honestly I would stop what you're doing. You're not getting any rust and your barrels a perfect every time you pull out a gun.
Secondly, I think that if someone has/get any pitting in your barrel from their improper care. Natural type preservatives will do little to stop the rust because once it starts it's hard to stop.

Lastly, Petroleum based oils are great for preservation but horrible for patch lubes. As long as you run a dry patch through you gun before you shoot, they're nothing wrong with using them. But. like I said before... I'd keep doing what you're doing.