Bore question for you folks...

[longrifle346]

I recently acquired a 50 caliber TC New Englander caplock at a gunshow. Beautiful rifle externally, clean as a pin! I didn't have a bore light( still don't but I have one on order now) nor did he but the shop owner is local and offerred a 90 day moneyback guarantee.

I found it still loaded. For safety's sake, peace of mind, and because I was unable to inspect the bore beforehand I soaked it down, removed the load, soaked it again, cleaned it to within an inch of it's life, and gave it the deluxe edition of my "Bad Bore" treatment, the same one that I've seen many of you suggest here.
Now bear in mind that I've not inspected the bore yet, only able to ascertain that it was smooth by loading a tight patched roundball with no discernable rough spots. I took the rifle to my range/bench out back and was amazed at the accuracy at 50 yards! Windage was spot on and after adjusting elevation for several rounds to reach my preferred "6 o'clock hold", my last two rounds were less than a half inch from touching.

I'm still looking for patches in the leaves for a read so my question is this: How bad can a bore be and have this kind of accuracy?

I'll follow this post up with pics as soon as the bore light arrives...

 

[imray]

Well, every barrel is different, but it sounds like a rifled bore in pretty fair condition to me. You must have a fine piece there, enjoy! beat wishes, ray

 

[ebiggs1]

I think that typical accuracy of the two dozen (TCs) or so I have shot. I don't shoot much past 50 yards so it is good for me.

 

[CrackStock]

In my thinking, the result down range trumps anything that you see in the bore.
CS

 

[kelvinator]

X-2
Sound wisdom right there :hatsoff: .

 

[paulvallandigham]

A barrel maker says that if the last 8 inches of a barrel are accurate, the gun will shoot accurate, regardless of the condition of the bore further down. He made thousands of barrels in his day, so I don't want to argue with him.

The Range results are the most important. It sounds like in spite of someone leaving the barrel loaded, it was taken care of quite well by the prior owner. You have lucked out. :hatsoff: :v

 

[Bill Hall]

If you're running a tight cleaning patch down the bore, and you can't feel anything bad, and since the accuracy is right where it should be, I'd say the bore is fine. Just keep cleaning and lubing after each shooting session and that rifle will shoot fine for years to come.

If you ever find some of your spent patches, they will let you know how everything is working, or if anything needs adjusting. Bill

 

[buttonbuck]

Is it not the case that powder becomes corrosive only fter it is shot? Maybe not the case with pyrodex? If this was not the case wouldn't the goex cans I have just be eaten away there is some air in there? Maybe the person loaded the gun went hunting and forgot. That was my greatest fear after last season I had my renegade with a load in it for a week after season and it went boom no problem. I recall when I first started out and a person from log cabin shop told me 2 things A flintlock will fire just as quick as a percussion and the at tests they did on goex compared to pyrodex found the pyrodex was much more corrosive.

 

[Zonie]

The fouling left by black powder and Pyrodex both attract moisture from the air and the moisture combines with the fouling to form many different things that can be very corrosive to steel.

I've read many accounts from people who have left their guns loaded with black powder and they claim there was no corrosion after a long period of time.

On the other hand the Bevel Brothers in one of their articles for Muzzle Blasts the NMLRA's magazine reported their findings after loading up several new barrels with real black powder and intentionally leaving the vents open to the air.
They stored these barrels in a humid cellar for a year and then tried to remove the patched ball.

They found that the only way to get it out was to unbreach the barrel and to drive the patched ball out with a wooden dowel and a big hammer.

During the storage apparently the humid air deposited its moisture into the charcoal in the powder. It also seeped into the cloth patch.
The area where the black powder was became totally rusted and the cloth patch rusted the bore so badly that the hammer/dowel method was the only way of removing it.

As I say, this happened in a very damp cellar and undoubtedly it would be less of a problem if the gun was stored in a room with lower humidity.

As for powder stored in its shipping container, these containers are sealed so the powder should not absorb any large quantities of moisture from its surroundings.

 

[ebiggs1]

Do you suppose the powder caused the corrosion or perhaps the lube causing it The lube could have contaminated the powder, yes, no? I know of guns left loaded for longer than a year and suffered no such circumstance. They even fired!

 

[Zonie]

The Bevel brothers were trying to see if black powder exposed to the air while it was stored in the barrel could cause a problem.
I don't recall that they used any rust preventative in the bore because that would be testing how well a rust preventative worked, not whether long term presence of black powder in a humid environment could cause problems.

I don't think the ingredients in the black powder actually caused the rust by themselves but there is no doubt that charcoal will readily absorb water and hold it for a long time.

 

[hoochiepapa]

A cheap bore light can be procured from Wally, either the ones that have one use, or the battery type pretty cheap, in the fishing area. Bobber lites?

 

[Deadeye]

Zonie, do you remembwer what lube the Bevels used or what issue of MB the article was in. They should have left the same loaded barrel in a dry atmosphere for comparison. Storing your gun in a humid atmosphere is asking for it. Once when we had overlapping hunting seasons I forgot and left a rifle loaded for a full year in a dry place.
Fired as usual, no rust, nothing different than usual.
Thanks, Deadeye

 

[Zonie]

It would seem I exaggerated just a bit about the condition of the test barrels where the powder was sitting. Read on to get the highlights of the story.

The article is on page 57 in the October 2002 "Muzzle Blasts".

After re-reading it, (one can't expect an old fart like me to remember everything) I find that they cut a new Getz barrel into 8 pieces and breeched them all using standard bolts to serve as breech plugs. The bolts were installed without lubrication.

They tested black powder and Pyrodex in both "fired and reloaded" and "not fired but loaded" conditions and in each one they lubricated the patch with spit.

Some of the barrels were drilled with a flintlock style touch hole and some of them had a percussion nipple installed directly into the barrel like a underhammer or Mule Ear gun would have.

Barrel piece #1 was drilled as a flintlock, loaded with black powder and a spit patched ball and fired. It was left dirty and was not reloaded.

Barrel piece #2 had a nipple, was loaded with Pyrodex and a spit patched ball and fired. It was left dirty and not reloaded.

Barrel piece #3 was drilled as a flintlock, loaded with black powder and a spit patched ball, fired and left dirty and reloaded.

Barrel piece #4 and #5 both had a nipple. One was loaded with black powder and the other loaded with Pyrodex. Both were fired and left dirty and reloaded.

Barrel piece #6 was drilled with a flintlock touch hole & barrel piece #7 had a percussion nipple installed.
They were both loaded with black powder and a ball with a spit lubed patch and were left unfired.

Barrel piece #8 had a percussion nipple installed and was loaded with Pyrodex and a ball with a spit lubed patch and left unfired.

All of the barrels were then stored in the cellar for one year.

When they tried to remove the breech plug bolts ALL OF THEM needed a 12 inch Crescent Wrench to even budge them.

The powder left in the barrels was scraped out with a pop-sickle stick without a problem.

Using a 3/8 hickory dowel and a mallet to remove the balls only succeeded in driving the piece of barrel out of the vise.
Using a 5/16 piece of steel rod did the same thing.

Holding the piece of barrel with Vise Grips with the breech end sitting on an anvil they then pounded the steel rod with a 3# blacksmith hammer. On average it took about 11 full swing blows with that hammer to drive most of the patched balls out of the barrels. Two of the balls were so stuck the steel rod poked a hole thru them leaving a donut of lead and patch still stuck in the bores.

After removing the patched balls they cut each barrel piece in half exposing the bores.

The areas in the unfired barrels (#6,7 & 8) where the black powder or the Pyrodex was located were rusted but not so badly that the bores couldn't be cleaned up with a lead lap. The spit lubed patch area was severely rusted.

Barrels # 1 & 2 which were fired but left unloaded both had rust and corrosion but the black powder fouling only created rust spots. The Pyrodex left a rusty frosted look somewhat like the surface had been sandblasted.
Neither caused deep pitting.

Quoting from the article, "In all cases where the barrel was left loaded, whether with black powder or Pyrodex there was a significant ring of corrosion damage that could not be removed with a polishing lap..." (p59)

Following this experiament they both had real concern for a fouled gun that was loaded as they did and left without firing because of the extreme breech pressures that would be created if the gun was then fired.

 

[StewartLeach]

The principle components of black powder are Potassium Nitrate (about 75%), carbon in the form of willow or alder charcoal (about 15%) and sulfur (about 10%).

Potasium Nitrate is a metalic salt- it's old timey name is Saltpeter. Just like its cousin Sodium Chloride- table salt- it will pick up humidity from the air and cause corrosion of steel.

My ML guns are unloaded one way or another before being put away. If fired, they are cleaned. If unloaded with CO2 discharger, I still wipe the barrel, and protect with patch dampish with Sheath, Barricade, Ballistol, etc.

Well taken care of, guns last a long time. One of my prized possessions is "Grampa Henry's Rifle"- a Ballard Pacific in 38-55. I never met him- he was my grandfathers father. I took my first deer with that rifle. My oldest child- the daughter who hunts antelope- will inherit.

White Fox