Bore Size for a Jaeger "Stutz" Barrel?

[R.J.Bruce]

I talked to Scott Keller yesterday about the possibility of Colerain making me up a 21" long, T.W. Pistor Brandenburg style, smoothbore Jaeger "Stutz" barrel. I would be going for a very large breech, I'm thinking in the neighborhood of 1.4375" in diameter. He was willing to consider the project barrel provided I paid for his time to make a special order barrel based off of Colerain's already existing, 28.5" long, T.W. Pistor pattern.

What I am undecided on is what bore diameter to choose? Should it be 12 bore (0.728"), 14 bore (0.690"), or 16 bore (0.660")?

Of course, 12 gauge is the most versatile, if one takes into account the vast variety of plastic wads that are supposedly available for purchase from companies such as Ballistic Products. Just how available the wads are remains to be seen as the aftereffects of the COVID-19 mess play out.

I welcome any, and all thoughts on the matter.

Thank you.

I am looking down the road at a Brandenburg style, smoothbore, rifle sighted, ambidextrous, dual cheek pieces, Jaeger "Stutz" such as would have been utilized by the German nobility to hunt Russian boar in the mountains of the Black Forest.

Ron Scott, from whom I would likely purchase an English walnut stock blank for the project, has in his archives images of an original Jaeger with both left and right cheek pieces.

I would like to couple such a stock blank with the Colerain smoothbore "Stutz" barrel, brass Brandenburg buttplate & triggerguard castings from Mike Brooks, and one of Chris Laubach's, CNC machined, 1740's German flintlocks.

I think that such components could make for a fast handling, compact, very ergonomic, friendly, handy, instinctively pointing, hunting flintlock good out to at least 50 meters. Especially, if equipped with a 2" wide, Rhodesian pattern, modern shooting sling.

 

[ohio ramrod]

Sounds like a nice project. I would go with the 12 gauge

 

[megasupermagnum]

Is this going to be a octagon to round barrel? Unless there is some kind of aggressive reduction, that sounds like a real pig to me. I'd be looking at a 10 gauge for sure, if not an 8 gauge.

 

[R.J.Bruce]

Is this going to be a octagon to round barrel? Unless there is some kind of aggressive reduction, that sounds like a real pig to me. I'd be looking at a 10 gauge for sure, if not an 8 gauge.

I am seriously considering a 10 gauge barrel with a 0.775" bore diameter.

The T.W. Pistor, Brandenburg style barrel had a heavy breech, that rapidly tapered to a very narrow waist, and then flared out to a moderately heavy muzzle.

What I envision, and I am not sure if Colerain will pull it off, is a barrel with the following measurements.

1.) 1.565" ** 0" from the breech ** 0.395" barrel wall thickness

2.) 1.349" ** 6" from the breech, end of the 1st taper ** 0.287" barrel wall thickness ** 0.036" of taper per 1" of barrel length

3.) 0.929" ** 16" from the breech, waist, end of the 2nd taper ** 0.077" barrel wall thickness ** 0.042" of taper per 1" of barrel length

4.) 1.169" ** 21" from the breech, muzzle ** 0.197" barrel wall thickness ** 0.048" of taper per 1" of barrel length

The reasoning behind such a massive breech is to have sufficient barrel wall thickness in the rear 6" of the barrel, so as to allow for Dove's Custom Guns, in Princeton, West Virginia, to be able to machine Talley scope ring dovetail bases with recoil shoulders, integrally into the top flat of the barrel. The necessary cuts are approximately 0.100" deep.

I am thinking that there would be from between 5-7 of the bases machined into the 6" long breech section of the barrel.

Then, there could be three separate options for sighting the barrel.

1.) Traditional open iron sights.

2.) A tube sight (w/ crosshairs?) that was fabricated from a single Talley scope ring base.

3.) A modern telescopic rifle scope. Was thinking perhaps an old, refurbished, Weaver K3? Or, any current variable power riflescope with an illuminated reticle?

An octagon-round barrel would surely lower the weight of such a barrel. I just am not aware of whether octagon-round barrels were ever found on the short "Stutz" boar hunting guns?

 

[megasupermagnum]

I know nothing about a Stutz, I only saw your very thick breech. 10 gauge is never a bad choice.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Of course, 12 gauge is the most versatile, if one takes into account the vast variety of plastic wads that are supposedly available for purchase from companies such as Ballistic Products. Just how available the wads are remains to be seen as the aftereffects of the COVID-19 mess play out.

I welcome any, and all thoughts on the matter.

Thank you.

So you mentioned the availability of plastic shot cups. I know that not all plastic wads go with BP or with Pyrodex.
I have used both AA brand and Remington (now defunct) brand with black powder and subs....,they were inexpensive and available, and worked great in my modern stuff...

Perhaps other brands are OK but these two melted with both Pyrodex P and 3Fg powder. The barrels where they were used were a mess, and took a long time to get the plastic bits out. I eventually resorted to dissolving the remnants out with a chemical that dissolved the plastic on contact, and only loaded fiber and or cardboard or cork wadding from then on.

The nice part of a large bore is that you can always underload it for a small critter, but heavy loading or even overloading a smaller gauge to go for a larger critter might not be the best idea. 10 gauge is the legal limit if you ever went for waterfowl, as well.

LD

 

[megasupermagnum]

From what I can tell, Stutz just means carbine, as in probably 18"-20" barrel, and a super thick one at that. I think it pretty safe to say a smooth bore Jaeger Stutz would have the wingshooting characteristics of a rock tied to a 2x4. I'd just forget about plastic wads. I've tried them with moderate success, but natural wads like paper or leather provide higher velocities, and better patterns. Even if you don't want to cut your own wads, 10 gauge nitro cards are as cheap as any other gauge, and actually cost less than plastic.

 

[Historian]

From my vast experience, do yourself a favor and load it right and that means staying away from plastic wads. If you are going to spend the money load it right. Leather OP wads, fiber or felt cushion wads lubed in beeswax/olive oil will be your best bet or buy the cardboard OP wads but stay away from plastic wads. Load her properly and she will reward you sir!

 

[Grenadier1758]

If you really feel the need for a shot cup, you will be better off in the long run by making paper shot cups by rolling grocery bag paper to approximate bore diameter and filling those cups with shot. Cleaning up the residual plastic mess left in the bore after using plastic shot cups is not the pleasant experience one would want after a successful hunt.